that Hezbollah has fired over 2,000 rockets and killed 55 people?
That is 1 person for every 36 rockets.
Are we really supposed to be afraid that these guys are going to take over the world?
But 36 of the 55 they have killed have at least been categorized as soldiers.
Has Israel’s soldier to civilian ratio been as admirable?
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RWHezbollah is AIMING for civilians and have openly called for the eradication of Israel. Would it be better for the ratio if they stuck to blowing up US barracks (soldiers), like they did in 1983 in Beruit?
Are they getting bonus points for ineptitude while they seek to murder while enjoying the PR campaign against Israel (for some reason I can’t yet gather)?
BuckRW I guess the question would be “what or who is Israel aiming at?”
They have killed on helluva lot of civilians and the only way to justify it is to say that if you are Lebanese then you are Hezbollah.
The headlines read, “Hezbollah rains rockets down on Israel!” but I guess the reality is that you are more likely to die in a hailstorm.
The Lebanese should be so lucky.
RWRW I guess the question would be “what or who is Israel aiming at?
If Israel wanted to kill civilians, (a) why would they drop leaflets telling them to leave because they’re going to drop bombs in a few hours at that location; (b) they could wipe most of the ME off the map *today* because of their superior military prowess.
They have killed on helluva lot of civilians and the only way to justify it is to say that if you are Lebanese then you are Hezbollah.
How about Occam’s razor’s premise: Hezbollah is largely located in Lebanon & much like our going after the Taliban in Afghanistan, if you’re going to actively harbor terrorists you’d better watch out, get out or prepare for the consequences. IMO, Israel is taking precautions to minimize civilian deaths while Hezbollah has not taken the first step in doing anything of the sort.
But, if the point is that Hezbollah can’t match Israel militarily, then I (and every thinking person) concur. And for that, I say “thank God”. Hezbollah has stated that it wants to wipe Israel off the map and I believe them (due to their actions). If they could, they would.
Israel could, but they don’t.
The Lebanese should be so lucky.
I’m not being dispassionate about the Lebanese, but if they hadn’t welcomed Hezbollah & accepted them as a political party, none of this would be happening. You have a country that recognizes a terrorist group as a POLITICAL PARTY.
I don’t want citizens harmed at all, but if I welcome skinheads into my home I also bear the responsibility of the consequences of any previous cross-burnings and/or violence that they committed. Thus, skinheads are not welcomed. Why is Hezbollah welcomed in Lebanon?
Hatred of anything Jew, that’s why.
BuckIsrael has had its share of terrorists Ricky. Over there all you have is the pot calling the kettle black. There are many Jews who are as appalled by the actions of their government as the Arabs are.
Israel is going to find themselves in the very same situation they were in 20 years ago. Mired up in a no win struggle against an all but invisible enemy with civilians taking the brunt of it. Popular opinion of Israel will continue it’s downward spiral and the situation will just get worse and worse and worse.
Just like our current situation in Iraq.
RWThere are many Jews who are as appalled by the actions of their government as the Arabs are.
I don’t disagree.
A shame that Hezbollah shot some rockets into civilian areas, killed two Israeli soldiers and kidnapped two more, which precipitated this entire thing, huh?
BuckA shame that Hezbollah shot some rockets into civilian areas, killed two Israeli soldiers and kidnapped two more, which precipitated this entire thing, huh?
Don’t you think the governments reaction was a bit……..over zealous?
This thing was planned over a year ago. It was just a matter of time.
And shit, all of this had its beginnings with Abraham, Sarah and Hagar. If you want to get to the root of the problem two weeks just ain’t deep enough to dig.
smijerAnd shit, all of this had its beginnings with Abraham, Sarah and Hagar.
Naw — this had its beginning with the holocaust, really. Arab-Jewish relations have historically been much better than, for instance, Christian-Jewish relations. It’s only since the U.N. thought it would be a bright idea to carve a new Jewish state out of lands formerly occupied by Arabs (though colonized by Brits) that things have really gone to shit. That’s practically ancient history itself by now; it’s amazing how a conflict can just keep feeding itself for over half a century after the bone-headed move that caused it all.
RWDon’t you think the governments reaction was a bit……..over zealous?
When someone drops 2,000 rockets indiscriminately on your country, the time for negotiation is over. It’s war.
If Israel has done something wrong - anything - there should be investigations and heavy sentences carried out.
Hezbollah committed war crimes, Buck, that brought this all about. Every one of those rockets was a war crime……yet a potentially accidental targeting of a home that killed a lot of innocent people by Israelis - after the government dropped leaflets warning that just such a thing was going to occur, IIRC - is what has brought on so much ire.
No, I do not think it was over zealous. I’m sure that individual objectives could be wrong, and it appears thus far that the one that happened over the weekend may have been, but I think Israel should kick ass until Lebanon decides that it will no longer appease terrorist groups like Hezbollah.
THEY KILL PEOPLE THAT DISAGREE WITH THEM. They do not negotiate. They’re terrorists.
This thing was planned over a year ago. It was just a matter of time.
No war crimes from Hezbollah, no actions from Israel.
And shit, all of this had its beginnings with Abraham, Sarah and Hagar.
Don’t know about Abraham & Sarah, but Sammy’s latest CD is great if you like beach music. 
Arab-Jewish relations have historically been much better than, for instance, Christian-Jewish relations.
Not in our lifetimes. Jews have no better friend than Christians….and no greater threat than, not arabs, muslims.
It’s only since the U.N. thought it would be a bright idea to carve a new Jewish state out of lands formerly occupied by Arabs (though colonized by Brits) that things have really gone to shit.
Well, not exactly. Israel kicked the arabs’ asses in a WAR over the land. Israel won the war. The other arab states didn’t want to take in the palestinians & thus we’ve had nonstop ME violence ever since. The UN didn’t go willy-nilly along and throw out arabs, Israel defeated them in a war. Now, one can disagree with the outcome, but I think most land on earth was acquired at one time or another via war. Our area was taken from the American Indians via war, we won our freedom from England via war and we lost our right to succeed in another war (thus the “north” decided that we would stay in the USA). Likewise, Israel won ‘back’ the land that was their in biblical times via war.
And entities that cannot defeat them militarily attempt to therefore simply kill their citizens in order to get the land back. ALL THIS, every bit of it, revolves around some land in the Middle East. Mel Gibson was wrong - the wars weren’t started by the Jews, but just about all of them revolve around the holy lands in the middle east.
smijerNot in our lifetimes.
No, not in our lifetimes… but the conflict doesn’t go back to Abraham, Sara & Hagar, either. There were some historical (and possibly some pseudo-historical) accounts of conflict between the Israelites and their semitic neighbors in the Bible; then, after the Machabbean war, a long period where there was no particular conflict - a couple thousand years - then, in the late 19th century, this new land dispute… that began on a low level with the first wave of Jewish immigration to Palestine, but really broke loose as all-out war after the U.N. chartered the nation of Israel in what was, before, Arab land under British colonial control.
RWthat began on a low level with the first wave of Jewish immigration to Palestine
Honest question: was there ever an actual country known as “Palestine”? I dunno & am too lazy to look it up.
smijerNever a country by that name. That’s what the Brits called the region when they occupied it, and of course, the name has a long & interesting history. I did do a quick Wikipedia search, and the first use of the name was in honor of the Phillistines who inhabited the southern region during Biblical times.
BuckOne note about war crimes.
They only apply to the LOSER of the war.
War IS a crime.
When and how and why all of this started can be debated from now on. But there is no way I could ever bring myself to see Israel with white hats and Hezbollah with black hats.
Things just are not that simple.
RWOne note about war crimes.
They only apply to the LOSER of the war.
War IS a crime.
I’m being practical and you’re going existential on me. If one doesn’t agree with Israel’s response, fine, but to play the game of moral equivalence simply because “war is a crime” is going off the beaten path. Kidnapping someone from their home against their will and holding them in a room for long periods of time would be considered a crime……except, that’s exactly what we do to murderers and kidnappers. War is not a crime. As the great Hagar said (not the one you noted above, I’m talking about Sammy) “if you want a little piece, sometimes you gotta fight”. BTW, Sammy Hagar is anti-war and anti-DP.
But there is no way I could ever bring myself to see Israel with white hats and Hezbollah with black hats.
That’s fine. I personally am more in agreement with a government that fights against terrorist entities that shoot Iranian missles into their civilian areas ON PURPOSE and who do battle against forces that have long called for their comlplete eradication.
Hezbollah blew up the barracks in 1983, killing 241 US soldiers…..and you can’t assign them black hats?
BuckI simply assign both sides immoral equivalence.
And if Lebanon or Israel or Iraq or China or Japan or (insert foreign country here) had soldiers stationed in my country telling me and mine where we could go and how we could act and searching my home and hassling me at intersections I like to believe that I would be one to HELP blow up their barracks.
I could feel justified if that were the case. I could never feel justified if I were kicking down doors in somebody else’s neighborhood.
RWUn.
Be.
Lievable.
BuckMy main point in all of this is to say
If you want to convince me that Hezbollah is barbaric then holding up dead civilians is not going to do the job. Both sides are racking up dead civilians. One side more than the other.
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Buck - might want to check out the discussion on this thread… Dave’s resident ditto-head makes a point or two, and gets rebutted on a point or two, by yours truly.