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	<title>Comments on: Fred on immigration</title>
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	<link>http://tete-tete-tete.com/525/fred-on-immigration/</link>
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	<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 00:12:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: smijer</title>
		<link>http://tete-tete-tete.com/525/fred-on-immigration/#comment-40041</link>
		<dc:creator>smijer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 14:08:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tete-tete-tete.com/?p=525#comment-40041</guid>
		<description>I modified them heavily when I moved them to WP from MT. Obviously, the page templates didn't carry over at all - so I had to rebuild them and then modify the CSS a tad to keep it in line with the new WP templates. 

Aside from that, I had recently done some significant (to me) style changes that I felt were a little easier on the eyes... and I hope to do a few more... so instead of doing it incrementally, I'm going to have to do some sweeping revisions.  I'm just glad to have something to limp through on until then.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I modified them heavily when I moved them to WP from MT. Obviously, the page templates didn&#8217;t carry over at all - so I had to rebuild them and then modify the CSS a tad to keep it in line with the new WP templates. </p>
<p>Aside from that, I had recently done some significant (to me) style changes that I felt were a little easier on the eyes&#8230; and I hope to do a few more&#8230; so instead of doing it incrementally, I&#8217;m going to have to do some sweeping revisions.  I&#8217;m just glad to have something to limp through on until then.</p>
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		<title>By: RW</title>
		<link>http://tete-tete-tete.com/525/fred-on-immigration/#comment-40039</link>
		<dc:creator>RW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 13:57:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tete-tete-tete.com/?p=525#comment-40039</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;About the blog - I accidentally deleted the theme when I upgraded to WP 2.5&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Why don't you use the template/files from the old link?

http://smijer.com/blog/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>About the blog - I accidentally deleted the theme when I upgraded to WP 2.5</p></blockquote>
<p>Why don&#8217;t you use the template/files from the old link?</p>
<p><a href="http://smijer.com/blog/" rel="nofollow">http://smijer.com/blog/</a></p>
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		<title>By: smijer</title>
		<link>http://tete-tete-tete.com/525/fred-on-immigration/#comment-40007</link>
		<dc:creator>smijer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 19:32:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tete-tete-tete.com/?p=525#comment-40007</guid>
		<description>About the blog - I accidentally deleted the theme when I upgraded to WP 2.5.  Big Ouch (see previous post entitled "Ouch"). I haven't had a chance to work on getting it back to normal. 

Any time people talk about property rights, or the distantly related border issues, I'm reminded of a passage from Breakfast of Champions - one that I can't quite quote from  memory, and one that I can't find a complete enough quote from on the internet.  Here's the &lt;a href="http://www.geocities.com/hollywood/4953/alter_ego.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;best page&lt;/a&gt; I could find with some of the quote and some further explanation:
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;"Every bit  of land on  the islands was  owned by only
     about  forty  people,  and,  in  the  story, Trout had those
     people decide to exercise their property rights to the full.
     They put no trespassing signs on everything."
           "This created terrible problems  fro the million other
     people on the islands. The law of gravity required that they
     stick somewhere  on the surface. Either  that, or they could
     go out into the water and bob offshore."&lt;/blockquote&gt;
 Eventually,  someone hits  on the  idea of  giving everyone
a helium  balloon  so  they  can  hover  over the islands without
actually  touching  the  ground.  However,  the  residents of the
island are dehumanized by money  and property rights to the point
where they can no longer even walk on the ground.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Which brings us back to what you said: "Others don’t object to illegal immigration, but think human rights extend beyond citizenship."

I agree that human rights extend beyond squabbles over imaginary lines called "borders".  To the extent that an artifice like a border can be used to further worthwhile goals, such as the protection of basic human rights, I embrace the notion and will support action to protect those imaginary lines. Naturally, such action would have itself to be consistent with those worthwhile goals being pursued. 

Currently, as Fred points out, the incentives exist to create a few big winners (stockholders of agri- &#038; service businesses that employ illegal immigrants), a multitude of marginal winners (the immigrants themselves who manage gainful employment at the expense of basic labor protections and devalued compensation), and a multitude of losers who together don't have enough political clout or consensus of will to even make a dent in the current system.  

However, unlike Fred, I don't see it as an existential crisis by any stretch.  Just another among a host of problems caused by people and gravity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>About the blog - I accidentally deleted the theme when I upgraded to WP 2.5.  Big Ouch (see previous post entitled &#8220;Ouch&#8221;). I haven&#8217;t had a chance to work on getting it back to normal. </p>
<p>Any time people talk about property rights, or the distantly related border issues, I&#8217;m reminded of a passage from Breakfast of Champions - one that I can&#8217;t quite quote from  memory, and one that I can&#8217;t find a complete enough quote from on the internet.  Here&#8217;s the <a href="http://www.geocities.com/hollywood/4953/alter_ego.html" rel="nofollow" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview ('/outbound/www.geocities.com');">best page</a> I could find with some of the quote and some further explanation:</p>
<blockquote><blockquote>&#8220;Every bit  of land on  the islands was  owned by only<br />
     about  forty  people,  and,  in  the  story, Trout had those<br />
     people decide to exercise their property rights to the full.<br />
     They put no trespassing signs on everything.&#8221;<br />
           &#8220;This created terrible problems  fro the million other<br />
     people on the islands. The law of gravity required that they<br />
     stick somewhere  on the surface. Either  that, or they could<br />
     go out into the water and bob offshore.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p> Eventually,  someone hits  on the  idea of  giving everyone<br />
a helium  balloon  so  they  can  hover  over the islands without<br />
actually  touching  the  ground.  However,  the  residents of the<br />
island are dehumanized by money  and property rights to the point<br />
where they can no longer even walk on the ground.</p></blockquote>
<p>Which brings us back to what you said: &#8220;Others don’t object to illegal immigration, but think human rights extend beyond citizenship.&#8221;</p>
<p>I agree that human rights extend beyond squabbles over imaginary lines called &#8220;borders&#8221;.  To the extent that an artifice like a border can be used to further worthwhile goals, such as the protection of basic human rights, I embrace the notion and will support action to protect those imaginary lines. Naturally, such action would have itself to be consistent with those worthwhile goals being pursued. </p>
<p>Currently, as Fred points out, the incentives exist to create a few big winners (stockholders of agri- &#038; service businesses that employ illegal immigrants), a multitude of marginal winners (the immigrants themselves who manage gainful employment at the expense of basic labor protections and devalued compensation), and a multitude of losers who together don&#8217;t have enough political clout or consensus of will to even make a dent in the current system.  </p>
<p>However, unlike Fred, I don&#8217;t see it as an existential crisis by any stretch.  Just another among a host of problems caused by people and gravity.</p>
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		<title>By: Buck</title>
		<link>http://tete-tete-tete.com/525/fred-on-immigration/#comment-40005</link>
		<dc:creator>Buck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 19:07:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tete-tete-tete.com/?p=525#comment-40005</guid>
		<description>I am one of these weird types that just does not care about illegal immigration. Mainly because we can make them legal with a simple stroke of a pen. I have never understood how passing some kind of 101 history exam made you a better citizen anyway.

I do believe it is a good idea to make learning English mandatory. I wouldn't think of going to live in Mexico without at least knowing some Spanish.

And I understand the arguments that illegals depress wages and put a strain on public services but hell, I figure if you are giving away public services just make it a first come first serve kind of thing. The doctor gets $1,000 bucks and the patient gets his knee hit with a rubber hammer. Who gets the best deal there?

Wealth redistribution. It is what government is all about.

And I don't believe that anybody is going to cross that river to be exploited. They know which side of the bread their butter is on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am one of these weird types that just does not care about illegal immigration. Mainly because we can make them legal with a simple stroke of a pen. I have never understood how passing some kind of 101 history exam made you a better citizen anyway.</p>
<p>I do believe it is a good idea to make learning English mandatory. I wouldn&#8217;t think of going to live in Mexico without at least knowing some Spanish.</p>
<p>And I understand the arguments that illegals depress wages and put a strain on public services but hell, I figure if you are giving away public services just make it a first come first serve kind of thing. The doctor gets $1,000 bucks and the patient gets his knee hit with a rubber hammer. Who gets the best deal there?</p>
<p>Wealth redistribution. It is what government is all about.</p>
<p>And I don&#8217;t believe that anybody is going to cross that river to be exploited. They know which side of the bread their butter is on.</p>
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		<title>By: h sofia</title>
		<link>http://tete-tete-tete.com/525/fred-on-immigration/#comment-39995</link>
		<dc:creator>h sofia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 16:45:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tete-tete-tete.com/?p=525#comment-39995</guid>
		<description>This blog looks all different ....
One issue that seems to keep coming up is that of living standards. Some people don't object to illegal immigration, so long as the immigrants stay in their place - 30 to an apartment, out of public schools and hospitals, available for exploitation, etc. Others don't object to illegal immigration, but think human rights extend beyond citizenship.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This blog looks all different &#8230;.<br />
One issue that seems to keep coming up is that of living standards. Some people don&#8217;t object to illegal immigration, so long as the immigrants stay in their place - 30 to an apartment, out of public schools and hospitals, available for exploitation, etc. Others don&#8217;t object to illegal immigration, but think human rights extend beyond citizenship.</p>
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		<title>By: RW</title>
		<link>http://tete-tete-tete.com/525/fred-on-immigration/#comment-39987</link>
		<dc:creator>RW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 13:36:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tete-tete-tete.com/?p=525#comment-39987</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;My wife and I paid 5 figures in taxes last year and I don’t even have garbage pick up. &lt;/i&gt;

You realize, don't you, that it's &lt;b&gt;not enough&lt;/b&gt;?  Get ready, your taxes are about to go up.

Mark.
My.
Words.

Y'see, it's your fault.  You're too successful &#38; need to pay your fair share.  The government decides, after all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>My wife and I paid 5 figures in taxes last year and I don’t even have garbage pick up. </i></p>
<p>You realize, don&#8217;t you, that it&#8217;s <b>not enough</b>?  Get ready, your taxes are about to go up.</p>
<p>Mark.<br />
My.<br />
Words.</p>
<p>Y&#8217;see, it&#8217;s your fault.  You&#8217;re too successful &amp; need to pay your fair share.  The government decides, after all.</p>
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		<title>By: Buck</title>
		<link>http://tete-tete-tete.com/525/fred-on-immigration/#comment-39983</link>
		<dc:creator>Buck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 12:57:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tete-tete-tete.com/?p=525#comment-39983</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;As to the nanny-state…. about the most I see of them is when they send around the garbage trucks on Friday, and I’m actually kind of glad to have that.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

My wife and I paid 5 figures in taxes last year and I don't even have garbage pick up. I have to haul my trash to what they now call a "convenience center" and pay for little stickers that you put on the bags before you toss them into the dumpster.

But I know I need to quit my bitchin'. At least I am riding on paved roads.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>As to the nanny-state…. about the most I see of them is when they send around the garbage trucks on Friday, and I’m actually kind of glad to have that.</p></blockquote>
<p>My wife and I paid 5 figures in taxes last year and I don&#8217;t even have garbage pick up. I have to haul my trash to what they now call a &#8220;convenience center&#8221; and pay for little stickers that you put on the bags before you toss them into the dumpster.</p>
<p>But I know I need to quit my bitchin&#8217;. At least I am riding on paved roads.</p>
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		<title>By: RW</title>
		<link>http://tete-tete-tete.com/525/fred-on-immigration/#comment-39943</link>
		<dc:creator>RW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 20:31:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tete-tete-tete.com/?p=525#comment-39943</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;olitical correctness and nanny-statism are two of the main reasons he left America.&lt;/i&gt;


Can't argue with him, there.  Was reminded of the latter last month as I filed my taxes &#38; detailed the "good" spending (to the penny).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>olitical correctness and nanny-statism are two of the main reasons he left America.</i></p>
<p>Can&#8217;t argue with him, there.  Was reminded of the latter last month as I filed my taxes &amp; detailed the &#8220;good&#8221; spending (to the penny).</p>
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		<title>By: smijer</title>
		<link>http://tete-tete-tete.com/525/fred-on-immigration/#comment-39939</link>
		<dc:creator>smijer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 20:07:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tete-tete-tete.com/?p=525#comment-39939</guid>
		<description>Could have saved himself the trouble and moved to Tiftonia, TN.  The most politically correct we have around here is flying our stars &#038; stripes &lt;i&gt;above&lt;/i&gt; the stars &#038; bars.  Also the Bible classes at the local high school are labeled "Bible History" in a quite PC way... but they teach Bible doctrine in there. 

As to the nanny-state.... about the most I see of them is when they send around the garbage trucks on Friday, and I'm actually kind of glad to have that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Could have saved himself the trouble and moved to Tiftonia, TN.  The most politically correct we have around here is flying our stars &#038; stripes <i>above</i> the stars &#038; bars.  Also the Bible classes at the local high school are labeled &#8220;Bible History&#8221; in a quite PC way&#8230; but they teach Bible doctrine in there. </p>
<p>As to the nanny-state&#8230;. about the most I see of them is when they send around the garbage trucks on Friday, and I&#8217;m actually kind of glad to have that.</p>
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		<title>By: Buck</title>
		<link>http://tete-tete-tete.com/525/fred-on-immigration/#comment-39936</link>
		<dc:creator>Buck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 19:27:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tete-tete-tete.com/?p=525#comment-39936</guid>
		<description>Political correctness and nanny-statism are two of the main reasons he left America.

Just two more reasons to love him.

It has never occurred to me that Fred Reed might be rich.

I'll have to check into that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Political correctness and nanny-statism are two of the main reasons he left America.</p>
<p>Just two more reasons to love him.</p>
<p>It has never occurred to me that Fred Reed might be rich.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll have to check into that.</p>
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