Comments on: The Speech http://tete-tete-tete.com/507/the-speech/ Wed, 03 Dec 2008 21:10:03 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.5 By: Buck http://tete-tete-tete.com/507/the-speech/#comment-39084 Buck Thu, 20 Mar 2008 15:32:14 +0000 http://tete-tete-tete.com/507/the-speech/#comment-39084 <blockquote>So, go ahead and live dangerously! Be audacious! Put the sticker on your truck! ;-D</blockquote> Alice, if he gets the nomination I will get an Obama sticker. Just for you. But you might want to send the authorities looking for me if I don't show up on this blog after an extended period ;-)

So, go ahead and live dangerously! Be audacious! Put the sticker on your truck! ;-D

Alice, if he gets the nomination I will get an Obama sticker. Just for you. But you might want to send the authorities looking for me if I don’t show up on this blog after an extended period ;-)

]]> By: alice http://tete-tete-tete.com/507/the-speech/#comment-39064 alice Thu, 20 Mar 2008 02:54:48 +0000 http://tete-tete-tete.com/507/the-speech/#comment-39064 Well, I don't know if you've ever seen the back of MY car, but I honestly expected to see my paint job keyed a long time ago. But still, the car looks good! So, go ahead and live dangerously! Be audacious! Put the sticker on your truck! ;-D Well, I don’t know if you’ve ever seen the back of MY car, but I honestly expected to see my paint job keyed a long time ago. But still, the car looks good!

So, go ahead and live dangerously! Be audacious! Put the sticker on your truck! ;-D

]]> By: smijer http://tete-tete-tete.com/507/the-speech/#comment-39047 smijer Wed, 19 Mar 2008 19:39:49 +0000 http://tete-tete-tete.com/507/the-speech/#comment-39047 Because they are making over 250k and want to keep their current tax rates. Or because they work for military contractors and want to keep their contracts. I can't think of much else. Because they are making over 250k and want to keep their current tax rates. Or because they work for military contractors and want to keep their contracts. I can’t think of much else.

]]> By: Buck http://tete-tete-tete.com/507/the-speech/#comment-39046 Buck Wed, 19 Mar 2008 19:23:51 +0000 http://tete-tete-tete.com/507/the-speech/#comment-39046 Believe me. I wrestled and wrestled with the Imus question. But then again, I was listening to Imus this morning on the radio and one of his guests asked him how the Sharpton thing turned out and he kind of chuckled. Basically saying without saying that he was richer after Sharpton than he could have ever been without him. And if anybody at anytime from anywhere can convince me that McCain would be a better President than Obama I am willing to listen. What it boils down to is a choice between McCain and Obama. Now. Somebody please tell me why I should prefer McCain? Believe me. I wrestled and wrestled with the Imus question. But then again, I was listening to Imus this morning on the radio and one of his guests asked him how the Sharpton thing turned out and he kind of chuckled. Basically saying without saying that he was richer after Sharpton than he could have ever been without him.

And if anybody at anytime from anywhere can convince me that McCain would be a better President than Obama I am willing to listen.

What it boils down to is a choice between McCain and Obama.

Now. Somebody please tell me why I should prefer McCain?

]]> By: smijer http://tete-tete-tete.com/507/the-speech/#comment-39045 smijer Wed, 19 Mar 2008 18:59:57 +0000 http://tete-tete-tete.com/507/the-speech/#comment-39045 Let me amend that somewhat... because, as a rule, I don't like to apply these terms as categorical descriptions of people. People are people. What is racist, sexist, homophobic, etc.. are not the people, but their thoughts and actions. The ideal is that people will recognize the harmfulness of these types of thoughts and actions, and work on correcting them. Let me amend that somewhat… because, as a rule, I don’t like to apply these terms as categorical descriptions of people. People are people. What is racist, sexist, homophobic, etc.. are not the people, but their thoughts and actions. The ideal is that people will recognize the harmfulness of these types of thoughts and actions, and work on correcting them.

]]> By: smijer http://tete-tete-tete.com/507/the-speech/#comment-39044 smijer Wed, 19 Mar 2008 18:56:34 +0000 http://tete-tete-tete.com/507/the-speech/#comment-39044 <blockquote>unreasoning fear of <b>or antipathy toward</b> homosexuals and homosexuality. ... 1. Fear of <b>or contempt</b> for lesbians and gay men. ... <b>prejudice against</b> (fear <b>or dislike of</b>) homosexual people and homosexuality ... irrational fear of, <b>aversion to, or discrimination against</b> homosexuality or homosexuals </blockquote> It isn't even a 1., 2. thing, with 1. being "fear" and 2. being prejudice, aversion, dislike, etc.. They are all lumped together as part of the primary definition. Ignoring half the definition isn't being true to the language at all. No, you don't have to go clubbing with your gay friends... You just can't have an aversion to, dislike or, fear of, or prejudice toward homosexuality as an orientation or homosexuals as people. As h sofia pointed out, most all of us have prejudices, aversions, dislikes, etc., based on race, religion, sexual orientation, etc... The big issue is whether we want to sweep them under the rug, or bring them out, shine a light on them, and try to deal with them. I think the best way is to do the latter. I think the best way to talk about them is using the terms that apply. If we need special terms for especially bad cases, we have modifiers that will serve. For instance a regular turn of phrase for the "baddies" is "unreconstructed racist" (or sexist, or homophobe, etc..) - or "unapologetic racist (etc.)" We have other specialized terms, too - "white supremacist", for instance. I don't know of a very commonly used construction to refer to the garden variety of these ills - (maybe "garden variety")... but like with alcoholism, probably the "best" designation to be would be "recovering racist (etc.)" There are precious few of us who don't at least fit that category for some prejucial ill.

unreasoning fear of or antipathy toward homosexuals and homosexuality.
…
1. Fear of or contempt for lesbians and gay men.

…

prejudice against (fear or dislike of) homosexual people and homosexuality

…

irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals

It isn’t even a 1., 2. thing, with 1. being “fear” and 2. being prejudice, aversion, dislike, etc.. They are all lumped together as part of the primary definition. Ignoring half the definition isn’t being true to the language at all.

No, you don’t have to go clubbing with your gay friends… You just can’t have an aversion to, dislike or, fear of, or prejudice toward homosexuality as an orientation or homosexuals as people.

As h sofia pointed out, most all of us have prejudices, aversions, dislikes, etc., based on race, religion, sexual orientation, etc… The big issue is whether we want to sweep them under the rug, or bring them out, shine a light on them, and try to deal with them.

I think the best way is to do the latter.

I think the best way to talk about them is using the terms that apply. If we need special terms for especially bad cases, we have modifiers that will serve. For instance a regular turn of phrase for the “baddies” is “unreconstructed racist” (or sexist, or homophobe, etc..) - or “unapologetic racist (etc.)” We have other specialized terms, too - “white supremacist”, for instance.

I don’t know of a very commonly used construction to refer to the garden variety of these ills - (maybe “garden variety”)… but like with alcoholism, probably the “best” designation to be would be “recovering racist (etc.)” There are precious few of us who don’t at least fit that category for some prejucial ill.

]]> By: RW http://tete-tete-tete.com/507/the-speech/#comment-39043 RW Wed, 19 Mar 2008 18:34:05 +0000 http://tete-tete-tete.com/507/the-speech/#comment-39043 <blockquote>all entries specify usage broader than the definition RW seems to employ…</blockquote> Really? They all read "scared of gays" to me. <blockquote> Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) ho·mo·pho·bi·a /ˌhoʊməˈfoʊbiə/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[hoh-muh-foh-bee-uh] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun <b>unreasoning fear of or antipathy toward homosexuals and homosexuality.</b> —Related forms ho·mo·pho·bic, adjective Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006. American Heritage Dictionary ho·mo·pho·bi·a (hō'mə-fō'bē-ə) Pronunciation Key n. <b> 1. Fear of or contempt for lesbians and gay men.</b> 2. Behavior based on such a feeling. [homo(sexual) + -phobia.] ho'mo·phobe' n., ho'mo·pho'bic adj. (Download Now or Buy the Book) The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. WordNet homophobia noun <b>prejudice against (fear or dislike of) homosexual people and homosexuality </b> WordNet® 3.0, © 2006 by Princeton University. Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This Main Entry: ho·mo·pho·bia Pronunciation: "hO-m&-'fO-bE-& Function: noun <b>: irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals</b></blockquote> I'm pretty sure that I used the word in the form that h sofia intended (I don't think you're under the supposition that she was complaining against people with an adherence towards similar fashion or the like); gays. If I don't want to go out clubbing with some gay friends, it doesn't make me a homophobe any more than it'd make a black person a racist if they didn't want to go out line dancing with their white friends. Racism is a serious charge. Very serious. Let's keep things in their proper perspective, lest we become as loose with hyperbole as someone like Andrew Sullivan, which is something none of us want (and I think that's one thing we can all agree on).

all entries specify usage broader than the definition RW seems to employ…

Really? They all read “scared of gays” to me.

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
ho·mo·pho·bi·a /ˌhoʊməˈfoʊbiə/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[hoh-muh-foh-bee-uh] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
unreasoning fear of or antipathy toward homosexuals and homosexuality.

—Related forms
ho·mo·pho·bic, adjective
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
American Heritage Dictionary
ho·mo·pho·bi·a (hō’mə-fō’bē-ə) Pronunciation Key
n.

1. Fear of or contempt for lesbians and gay men.
2. Behavior based on such a feeling.

[homo(sexual) + -phobia.]

ho’mo·phobe’ n., ho’mo·pho’bic adj.
(Download Now or Buy the Book)
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
WordNet
homophobia
noun
prejudice against (fear or dislike of) homosexual people and homosexuality

WordNet® 3.0, © 2006 by Princeton University.
Merriam-Webster’s Medical Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This

Main Entry: ho·mo·pho·bia
Pronunciation: “hO-m&-’fO-bE-&
Function: noun
: irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals

I’m pretty sure that I used the word in the form that h sofia intended (I don’t think you’re under the supposition that she was complaining against people with an adherence towards similar fashion or the like); gays.

If I don’t want to go out clubbing with some gay friends, it doesn’t make me a homophobe any more than it’d make a black person a racist if they didn’t want to go out line dancing with their white friends.

Racism is a serious charge. Very serious. Let’s keep things in their proper perspective, lest we become as loose with hyperbole as someone like Andrew Sullivan, which is something none of us want (and I think that’s one thing we can all agree on).

]]> By: smijer http://tete-tete-tete.com/507/the-speech/#comment-39042 smijer Wed, 19 Mar 2008 18:04:06 +0000 http://tete-tete-tete.com/507/the-speech/#comment-39042 Whether it's a bound edition or an internet edition, a dictionary is about as close as one can get to standardized sets of meanings for natural language words. Of course, language is a little more complex than a dictionary can always account for, but it's a good start: <a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/racist" rel="nofollow">Racism / racist</a> (of the 4 entries on this word, I think the first - from Dictionary.com (Unabridged v 1.1) is closest to RW's definition... Probably h. sofia's usage is best covered by the American Heritage entry). Both usages are justifiable, and, of course, others not codified in the dictionary. <a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/homophobia" rel="nofollow">Homophobia</a> ... (all entries specify usage broader than the definition RW seems to employ... I think RW is narrowing in on the suffix of the word rather than dealing with the word as a whole in its English language usage. RW, if you did that for both the root and the suffix, you would get a definition along the lines of "fear of sameness". Sometimes in language, as elsewhere in life, the whole is bigger than the sum of the parts). Whether it’s a bound edition or an internet edition, a dictionary is about as close as one can get to standardized sets of meanings for natural language words. Of course, language is a little more complex than a dictionary can always account for, but it’s a good start:
Racism / racist (of the 4 entries on this word, I think the first - from Dictionary.com (Unabridged v 1.1) is closest to RW’s definition… Probably h. sofia’s usage is best covered by the American Heritage entry). Both usages are justifiable, and, of course, others not codified in the dictionary.

Homophobia … (all entries specify usage broader than the definition RW seems to employ… I think RW is narrowing in on the suffix of the word rather than dealing with the word as a whole in its English language usage. RW, if you did that for both the root and the suffix, you would get a definition along the lines of “fear of sameness”. Sometimes in language, as elsewhere in life, the whole is bigger than the sum of the parts).

]]> By: RW http://tete-tete-tete.com/507/the-speech/#comment-39041 RW Wed, 19 Mar 2008 17:32:19 +0000 http://tete-tete-tete.com/507/the-speech/#comment-39041 dictionary.com dictionary.com

]]> By: h sofia http://tete-tete-tete.com/507/the-speech/#comment-39040 h sofia Wed, 19 Mar 2008 17:03:10 +0000 http://tete-tete-tete.com/507/the-speech/#comment-39040 All I can say is, we definitely don't share definitions of those words! All I can say is, we definitely don’t share definitions of those words!

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