…RW, with runners on base, …are you more scared of the HR that will happen with Howard in approximately 45 times out of 550 ABs or are you worried about the base hit, or the one to the gap, approximately 200 times out of 550 ABs?

Howard has an MVP trophy on his mantle for just that reason. Remember, you were going to pitch around him (apparently, you were a bit scared, too). With runners on, ya gotta go after him.

Like Ralph Kiner said, singles hitters drive Fords, homerun hitters drive cadillacs.

+BTW, ~200/550 is a .360+ hitter and unless Ty Cobb has been reincarnated, there ain’t no more of them around. The guy you described was Mark Grace or Wally Joyner. I’ll take Howard, thankyouverymuch.

And……I’m spent.

Er, you typed “He hits well on the road as well…something Helton has never done.” Helton HAS done.

with an .080 differential….what??

Look, he used to be QB at my beloved Neyland Stadium…but I just cant swallow this. He is a good hitter…but not as good a hitter as his “stats” might suggest.

Any manager that attempted to hit and run with Ryan Howard at the plate should be fired immediately. Howard’s job is putting runs on the board or scoring them, something he does in mass quantities.

Ok then…touche’..

…However you cannot ignore the ability to put the bat on the ball in crucial situations.

That and 50 cents will get you a copy of USA Today. Utley’s a hitter, not a walker. See: Puckett, Kirby. Seriously, your argument against these stats are that he doesn’t walk enough? Then why is it that Frenchy is the bomb, again?

…then why the hell have I been paying .75 cents for MY USA Today??

…Frenchy is a bonifide star in the making…I hope you are still here commenting 10 years from now with your “smiley faces” when Frenchy is donning the SI cover yet ten more times…

…Ok, I am getting ahead of myself here…

I am a Braves fan…its very hard to be critical of what and who you love…it is, however, easy to get on the bandwagon.

Frenchy has already won his 1st Gold Glove. He has already hit 100 RBI at the tender age of 23…he is 24 now.

He is also capable of hitting .300 and 30+ HRs consistantly…in the outfield?? He wants you to run on him…that way he gets to show off his arm…the same one that he threw 96MPH fastballs in High School with.

An out is an out, which is why Howard is the 2nd most feared hitter at the plate in the game (A-Rod).

…RW, with runners on base, …are you more scared of the HR that will happen with Howard in approximately 45 times out of 550 ABs or are you worried about the base hit, or the one to the gap, approximately 200 times out of 550 ABs?

I never said he wasnt a decent hitter, all I said was that Coors helped his numbers.

Er, you typed “He hits well on the road as well…something Helton has never done.” Helton HAS done.

Ryan Howard also struck out 200x last year

An out is an out, which is why Howard is the 2nd most feared hitter at the plate in the game (A-Rod).

Not much for the hit and run option eh?

Any manager that attempted to hit and run with Ryan Howard at the plate should be fired immediately. Howard’s job is putting runs on the board or scoring them, something he does in mass quantities.

He also hit .235 vs LHP…like I said, with a good bullpen or staff, I can pitch around him.

Which is why Pat Burrell knocked in 114 last year. You don’t think NL managers have considered that approach?

Besides, in three seasons he only has a ROY & an MVP to his credit….and he hasn’t even become eligible for free agency. Best young power hitter in the game, bar none.

…and Utley gets almost 2x as many K’s per BB’s.

????
That and 50 cents will get you a copy of USA Today. Utley’s a hitter, not a walker. See: Puckett, Kirby. Seriously, your argument against these stats are that he doesn’t walk enough? Then why is it that Frenchy is the bomb, again?

Are you questioning my fanhood?

Nah, pimping my sports street cred like a rapper flashing their bullet wound.

I’ll put it this way: if you’re going into your fantasy draft with Chipper & Tex rated above Utley & Howard, well, let’s just say that I hope for your sake it’s a free league.

Nope, not fantasy baseball…and I feel that is exactly where this thread has actually taken us.

Helton’s a career .295 hitter on the road. Tex is .271. Both are similar on most of the other areas, but Helton’s career on the road is better.

I never said he wasnt a decent hitter, all I said was that Coors helped his numbers.

There is an almost .080 pts difference between Heltons’ home and road #’s where average is concerened. He has also hit 70+ HRs at home than compared to the road.

There is only a .030 pt difference in Texs’ road/home avg. with only 16 more HRs coming on the road…hardly a concession to the hometown stadium.

Chipper hits with a .016 differential on avg. with only 26 more HR’s coming at home.

FYI, Ryan Howard’s career OBP is higher than Tex’s.

Ryan Howard also struck out 200x last year. Not much for the hit and run option eh? He also hit .235 vs LHP…like I said, with a good bullpen or staff, I can pitch around him.

…and Utley gets almost 2x as many K’s per BB’s.

…I can keep going.

no, I didn’t need to google that, I’m a true fan

Are you questioning my fanhood?

d then come to the conclusion that there was only one guy in the history of the game that is better than these two (Mickey Mantle)…then I dont understand why you dont understand the argument.

If your argument is Chipper’s career, then I agree. He’s probably the one of the best switch hitters of all time. Chipper and Tex TODAY, though, aren’t as much of a threat at the plate than some other 3/4 combos, which was my original argument. I’ll put it this way: if you’re going into your fantasy draft with Chipper & Tex rated above Utley & Howard, well, let’s just say that I hope for your sake it’s a free league.

He hits well on the road as well…something Helton has never done.

??

Helton’s a career .295 hitter on the road. Tex is .271. Both are similar on most of the other areas, but Helton’s career on the road is better. Of course, Tex is in a new league, so that’ll change things. Personally, I can’t wait to see him in a Braves uni for a while.

Playing in Coors Field enhances hitters’ statistic

Not any more. The humidor effect is in full play. Google “ballpark factor” to find the best hitting parks.

Dave, I am guessing by your statements that you dont think too highly of Tony Gwynn, Wade Boggs, Ted Williams…etc.

[closed blockquote tag -smijer]

One of those names doesn’t belong. The one with 521 homers (no, I didn’t need to google that, I’m a true fan) is on another list. FYI, Ryan Howard’s career OBP is higher than Tex’s.

My favorite stat is just plain OB%..thats just me personally…(and people like Billy Bean). But tie that in with the batting avg. and then you put other factors into play..for instance, the hit and run option.

Purists love the hit and run…its real baseball.

Also, you have to take in other considerations, like power to the gaps, speed, and the ability to “turn” on the ball from the 7th inning on as needed.

Dave, I am guessing by your statements that you dont think too highly of Tony Gwynn, Wade Boggs, Ted Williams…etc.

RW, Its not just switch hitters in general…its switch hitters who hit for both avg, power, and OB% from both sides of the plate…

Like I said earlier, I dont think that Chipper and Tex are the greatest 3/4 power threats…not even in the game today, nor are they the greatest avg. threats …but when you take into consideration the great switch hitters in the history of the game…and then come to the conclusion that there was only one guy in the history of the game that is better than these two (Mickey Mantle)…then I dont understand why you dont understand the argument.

With a good pitching staff you look for particular weaknesses and then try to expose them.

RW, Dave…? How do you pitch around Chipper and Tex? Especially with men on base and Frenchy hitting behind them?

As far as what role the ballparks play in an atheletes’ performance? …that is a “no-brainer”.

Playing in Coors Field enhances hitters’ statistics…the ball carries further and also the pitching takes a hit…with the thin air the ball doesnt have enough time or resistance to break accordingly…giving the hitters yet another advantage.

Tex did play in Texas…hardly a fair comparison to Coors but whatever…just look what he did once he arrived in Atlanta though.

He hits well on the road as well…something Helton has never done.

I’ll gladly take that 3-4 punch in a heartbeat, probably moreso than I would Ortiz and Manny.

Personal preference, which I cannot change. Some fans would “gladly take” Peyton Manning while others would prefer Tom Brady. I’ll take Kathy Ireland while others prefer Angelina Jolie.

The point Jadarm is trying to make, is that as far as back to back switch hitters go, Chip and Teix may very well possibly be one of the best in Baseball history, if not the best (seeing as you can’t exactly compare eras.)

Again, what constitutes “history” to you? You’ve foregone the Yankee dynasty from the 20s & 30s, so history doesn’t mean…..history….it appears to mean “recent history, in parks that aren’t friendly to hitters, relegated only to switch hitters that bat 3 and 4 in the lineup, with a heavy reliance on OPS and average” (which truly is an overrated statistic, which is why OPS was created, after all). If that’s the case, you may be right….I haven’t researched what teams had back to back switch hitters.

Babe & Gehrig didn’t need to bat righty, though, did they? .340 and .343 says they did okay from one side of the plate.

Enjoyed it, guys.

somebody compare back to back switch hitters and see what you come up with…

But that wasn’t his argument. Lets go back to what he wrote originally:

The Braves have arguably the best 3/4 hitters in the game today…maybe even in the history of the game when you compile the numbers.

We have given a small sampling of the “compiled numbers,” and they simply don’t support his argument.