Tête-à-Tête-Tête

Love ‘em or hate ‘em the Patriots have one hell of a football team. If they win it all I would be willing to say they were the best of all time. Putting together an undefeated season is no easy accomplishment.

Plus they have two former Georgia players (Ben Watson and Richard Seymour) on the roster. Love it when Dawgs get Super Bowl rings.

Notice that their entire roster is awash in former SEC standouts.

How can they help but be good!

I selfishly like the SEC angle.

The Pats and their beloved coach are a team that I either love to hate or hate to love. The possible discussions about this team are endless. Who is more important to the team, Brady or Belichick? Is Brady a greater post season quarterback than Montana? Is Moss really better than Rice?

If they do win Super Bowl XLII then they will have to be considered as among the best if not “the” best of all time.

But, if they lose…where do they fall in the mix?

…but what happens if they lose? Who is the best?

If they lose, they’re not even the best team this season. If a team doesn’t win the champeen-ship, they’re relegated to ‘bystander’ status. The best Braves team of their storied run was the ‘93 squad that won 104 games. Alas, they ran out of steam in the playoffs to the Phillies & thus all those wins accounted for jack squat.

If the Pats win, they’re the best of all time, period. The greatest season by a QB and WR in history, plus an undefeated season that included a regular season game against the NFC representative alone would give them that status.

Y’know, Tom Brady is sure living a storied life at the moment, ain’t he? As in, “would make a young Elvis’ life seem comparable” storied….

BTW, today’s buzz word is “storied”.

I agree with Ricky on that one. If they lose they are just another team.

Whether they would have beaten the ‘72 Dolphins or the ‘85 Bears is just pure speculation and there is no way to ever know. I do feel though that as time goes by teams get better so I would be of the opinion that today’s Pats could beat yesterdays Dolphins and Bears.

In my opinion Randy Moss is the best receiver ever. I know he has some personal issues but if you just look simply at his performance on the field he is hard to beat.

Brady is smarter than the average quarterback. He takes what he is given. That is one reason for his and their success. If you cover deep he will eat you up with short passes.

The trick is to try and get to the guy. If you can figure out a way to get to him you can make a run at winning but if you give him unlimited time the game is over. He is gonna beat you.

Pro football doesn’t do it for me like college football does but when it is all you have it has to do. The most important thing for the Giants this weekend is defense, defense, defense. If they get into a scoring contest they are screwed.

I swear I have never seen offensive tomatoes as prolific as the ones there in Massachussetts. Must be the fertilizer - what do your think? Bear crap?

True, they cannot be given the status as “greatest ever” if they dont beat the Giants. They can be an “honerable mention” at best.

RW, I love the analogy to the 93′ Braves. Their 104 win season was excruciating and was probably the reason the wild card was established in MLB. How in the world do the San Francisco Giants win 103 games and not make the playoffs? But, I think that their hard drive to win the division that year ultimately left them exhausted which is why they didnt advance further that year.

Must be the fertilizer - what do your think? Bear crap?

…I dont know smij….if I didnt know better I would think that someone is on the New England sidelines with a video camera trying to steal signs.

Whether they would have beaten the ‘72 Dolphins or the ‘85 Bears is just pure speculation and there is no way to ever know.

Eh, evolution (as in the classic definition, not “a cell later became an ape that later became man”) and sports advancements pretty much makes such speculation rather, er, speculative. The average pro athlete of today is much bigger, stronger, faster and, thus, better, than that of 20 years ago. Or 10. Or 5. There are always exceptions (Wilt, Jordan, Tiger) but as a general rule, “sport” advances. A collection of individuals on a team makes the “exceptions” part pretty much implausible. Sure, an individual player on da Bears could still be dominant today (transplant the 1985 Mike Singletary in 2007’s Bears LB corps and he’d still be the premiere linebacker in the game) but an entire team? Nah. The offensive lines are bigger & stronger today. The RBs and WRss are faster AND stronger…and jump higher. And are more athletic. The DBS are faster & stronger & quicker.

Don’t get me wrong, Nolan Ryan throwing a pea 101 MPH in 1972 is still a 101 pea in 2008, but…..well, you get my drift. Lotta guys are throwing 100 nowadays & someone who can’t throw 90 is considered a “junkballer”. Look at the sizes of the lines from the 70s & 80s and you’d have them steamrolled by the 6′7″/320lb behomoths and genetic freaks of today.

My two cents, at least.

I don’t think it’s a genetic thing. The guys playing today are barely a generation removed from the guys playing in the 70’s… not much time for movement in the gene pool. It may have to do with advances in training schedules & methods, better (legit) supplements, and / or under the counter pharmaceuticals. You’re right, though. The guys playing today are monsters.

It is great fun to go back and look at the linemen that used to wear the leather helmets.

Offensive and defensive linemen weighing in at 160 pounds.

I don’t know what it is that has made the changes but nowadays over 6′4″ and over 300 pounds just is not that unusual.

I remember the ABA slam-dunk contest where Dr. J dunked from the free-throw line & it was considered something along the lines of Bob Beamon. Twenty years later almost every person in the NBA slam-dunk contest can do one of those.

Go look at one generation ago in the NBA; Alvin Robertson, Gus Williams, Dennis Johnson, Lafayette Lever, Sidney Moncrief. Not just players in the NBA, but members of the All-Pro teams from the 80s. Today, every one of those guys would be told that they would be ’slow’ point guards because they’re all too short to play the #2, where 6′6″ is the average. Jamaal Wilkes would be out of place as a 6′6″ small forward & would be dominated in the post by today’s version of the small forward, like a 6′9″ Shawn Marion.

Dunno if it’s the influx of European players or a wider pool of talent than the past, but basketball at all levels shows a larger average size & skill set than a mere 25 years ago. Remember, Michael Jordan was a small forward at UNC & was considered a ‘big’ #2 guard at 6′6″. Today? He’d have to go up against Kobe Bryant & Dwayne Wade, both larger than he.

And they’re still growing…..

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I don’t know what it is that has made the changes but nowadays over 6′4″ and over 300 pounds just is not that unusual.

For every sport other than football linemen: It wasn’t that long ago - I remember because it was told to me while I played - that weight lifting was considered an anathema because it would ‘mess up your timing and coordination’, so many stayed away. Now, it’s known to be one of the best things that can most athletes can do, so that alone is adding ten to twenty percent to their frames/sizes.

Twenty-five years ago a phenom like Dwight Howard would be the biggest name in sports because he’s a seven footer who can jump through the roof and dominate the middle; today, he’s an afterthought because the league is filled with 6′7″ high flyers that comprise most of the ESPN highlights.

Terry Bradshaw, Pat Haden, Roger Staubach, all from one generation ago (or so) and all wouldn’t even be scouted by the NFL or at least be given the Doug Flutie ‘prove yourself in the CFL’ treatment because they were much too small to see over today’s massive lines.

I think teams today spend more money on scouting and development and the games reach people all over the globe. Also, training techniques have been specialized as have PEDs and HGH can still not be tested reliably.

As for the tall people out there playing basketball, I saw this cat on ESPN the other day. 7 feet 7 inches tall - 360 lbs - with an 8 foot wingspan. He is currently playing with the University of North Carolina-Asheville men’s basketball team. He has trouble getting up and down the court sometimes but all he has to do is stand under the basket.

jadarm asked for help with the busted link from above (this cat). The WP version installed here is buggy with comment editing so here is the link.

Makes you wonder what they’re puttin’ in the water at those schools, don’t it??

I doubt he will have a long professional career.