Archives

Categories

Numbers Game

Taxes and Tea Parties by the numbers.

Some of that may be a little silly or tenuous… but over all it might put some things into perspective. I’d like to see added…

Percent of families that pay no federal income tax: 47.

I doubt the data is available, but I’d be curious to learn how many of those who are Taxed Enough Already are among the 47% who pay no federal income tax (and how many work for a corporation that is among the 66% of them who pay no federal income tax).

Of less interest nationally, but of great interest to me would be the percentage of Tea Partiers who live in Tennessee where the regressive tax structure places extra burdens on the poor and middle class and drives business out of state.

Or what percentage of Tea Parties think that collecting 27% of GDP in taxes is unconstitutional but that the 4th Amendment is meaningless, warrant-less wiretaps are just fine, and habeas corpus is just an inconvenience to be worked around by presidential fiat.

Perspective - I has it!

22 comments to Numbers Game

  • The Tea Party crowd just tickles the shit out of me. I feel like I am kin to all of them. The “Don’t Tread On Me” t-shirts along with the social security check stubs just absolutely tickles the shit out of me. And the threats of armed revolt are even funnier. Most of these guys probably couldn’t even clean a damn fish much less participate in an armed revolt where they would be massacred en masse by a drone 10 miles away from them.

    The pictures of the gatherings tell it all. If you can look at that crowd without doubling over in laughter then you are seeing something that I just ain’t seeing. Just take a few minutes to look at the picture on the Facing South page. That is knee slapping hilarious to me.

    “Long time taxpayer, first time protester” Really? What is it that suddenly got you so excited?

    Have you seen this?

    We live in a very funny place at a very funny point in time.

  • I’m at work where Flash is disabled. Will have to check that one out tonight…

    It’s like I said – some perspective is needed. On the other hand these folks are now, maybe like I was 8 years ago – newly incensed & new to thinking about political things. Maybe 8 years from now when they realize that no matter how boisterous, no matter how mad, and no matter how successful at getting “their guy” elected, Washington will continue to operate by its own rules. As it dawns on them that “the people” have never had anything to do with political power, I imagine they will get a healthy dose of both cynicism & perspective.

  • Shit man. “Their guy” just finished an 8 year stint not long ago. And they were as quite as mice for his entire tenure. These folks have awfully white hair to be just now tuning in to politics.

    They will calm down again in 2016. Unless Hillary runs and wins. Then all bets are off :-)

  • Yeah – well…Once you’ve actually taken to the streets and made tea-bag hats to wear with your sign… I’m not sure there is any going back. Sometime in the next few years these people, while staying mad, will start to form coherent theories about how government should work.

    Now, next time one of the marionettes dangling on the end of the military-industrial complex’s strings looks like them – they are bound to figure out that Washington only works one way, and doesn’t give a shit about their theories of how government should work.

    They probably will sit down and shut up, but I think the expression on their faces will look a lot more like mine does now… reflecting a fair amount of cynicism and perspective.

    Reminds me of a scene from Catch-22… an old Italian guy talking to a soldier about not caring how the war came out as long as he survived. He said the rulers would do their thing and the proles would do their thing… and that doing their thing, the proles would outlast any set of rulers. Or something to that effect. Haven’t read it in a couple of decades.

  • Oh yeah. Rulers come and rulers go but that damn mortgage just keeps coming and coming :-)

    I have to say that I am enjoying your newfound cynicism.

    My gift to you

    I swear 1971 just does not seem that long ago. Man, those were the days.

  • Yeah – well…Once you’ve actually taken to the streets and made tea-bag hats to wear with your sign… I’m not sure there is any going back

    And I am going to be laughing about that sentence all of the way home from work which is where I am heading right now. Thanks for the chortle.

  • Ok… from Catch 22:

    “America ,” he said, “will lose the war. And Italy will win it.” “America is the strongest and most prosperous nation on earth,” Nately informed him with lofty fervor and dignity. “And the American fighting man is second to none”.

    “Exactly”, agreed the old man pleasantly, with a hint of taunting amusement. Italy, on the other hand, is one of the least prosperous nations on earth. And the Italian fighting man is probably second to all. And that’s exactly why my country is doing so well in this war while yours is doing so poorly.

    Nately guffawed with surprise, then blushed apologetically for his impoliteness. “I’m sorry I laughed at you,” he said sincerely, and he continued in a tone of respectful condescension. “But Italy was occupied by the Germans and is now being occupied by us. You don’t call that doing very well, do you?”

    “But of course I do,” exclaimed the old man cheerfully. “The Germans are being driven out, and we are still here. In a few years you will be gone, too, and we will still be here. You see, Italy is really a very poor and weak country, and that’s what makes us so strong. Italian soldiers are not dying anymore. But American and German officers are. I call that doing extremely well. Yes, I am certain that Italy will survive this war and still be in existence long after your own country has been destroyed.”

    Nately could scarcely believe his ears. He had never heard such shocking blasphemies before, and he wondered with instinctive logic why the why G-men did not appear to lock the traitorous old man up. “America is not going to be destroyed!” he shouted passionately.

    “Never?” prodded the old man softly.

    “Well…” Nately faltered.

    The old man laughed indulgently, holding in check a deeper, more explosive delight. His goading remained gentle. “Rome was destroyed, Greece was destroyed, Persia was destroyed, Spain was destroyed. All great countries are destroyed. Why not yours? How much longer do you really think your own country will last? Forever? Keep in mind that the earth itself is destined to be destroyed by the sun in twenty-five million years or so.

    Nately squirmed uncomfortably. “Well, forever is a long time, I guess.”

    “A million years?” persisted the old man with keen, sadistic zest. “A half million? The frog is almost five hundred million years old. Could you really say with much certainty that America, with all its strength and prosperity, with it’s fighting man that is second to none, and with its standard of living that is the highest in the world, will last as long as the… frog?”

    Nately wanted to smash his leering face. He looked about imploringly for help in defending his county’s future against the obnoxious calumnies of this sly and sinful assailant. He was disappointed. Yossarian and Dunbar were busy in a far corner pawing orgiastically at at four or five frolicsome girls and six bottles of red wine, and Hungry Joe had long since tramped away down one of the mystic hallways, propelling before him like a ravening despot as many of the broadest-hipped young prostitutes as he could contain in his frail windmilling arms and cram onto one double bed [...]

    “How old are you?” Nately asked, growing intrigued and charmed with the old man in spite of himself.

    “A hundred and seven.” The old man chuckled heartily at Nately’s look of chagrin. “I see you don’t believe that either.”

    “I don’t believe anything you tell me,” Nately replied with a bashful, mitigating smile. “The only thing I do believe is that America is going to win this war.”

    “You put so much stock in winning wars,” the grubby iniquitous old man scoffed. “The real trick lies in losing wars, in knowing which wars can be lost. Italy has been losing wars for centuries, and just see how splendidly we’ve done nonetheless. France wins wars and is in a continual state of crises. Germany loses and prospers. Look at our own recent history. Italy won a war in Ethiopia and promptly stumbled into serious trouble. Victory gave us such insane delusions of grandeur that we helped start a world war we hadn’t a chance of wining. But now that we are losing again, everything has taken a turn for the better, and we certainly will come up on top again if we succeed in being defeated.”

    Nately gaped at him in undisguised befuddlement. “Now I really don’t understand what you’re saying. You talk like a madman.”

    “But I live like a sane one. I was a fascist when Mussolini was on top, and I an an anti-fascist now that he has been deposed. I was fanatically pro-German when the Germans were here to protect us against the Americans, and now that the Americans are here to protect us against the Germans I am fanatically pro-American. I can assure you, my outraged young friend” – the old man’s knowing, disdainful eyes shown even more effervescently as Nately’s stuttering dismay increased – “that you and your country will have no more loyal partisan in Italy than me – but only as long as you remain in Italy.”

    “But,” Nately cried out in disbelief, “you’re a turncoat! A time-server! A shameful, unscrupulous opportunist!”

    “I am a hundred and seven years old,” the old man reminded him suavely.

    “Don’t you have any principles?”

    “Of course not.”

    “No morality?”

    “Oh, I am a very moral man,” the villainous old man assured him with satiric seriousness, stroking the bare him of a buxom black-haired girl with pretty dimples who had stretched herself seductively on the other arm of his chair. He grinned at Nately sarcastically as he sat between both naked girls in smug and threadbare splendor, with a sovereign hand on each.

    “I can’t believe it,” Nately remarked grudgingly, trying stubbornly not to watch him in relation to the girls. “I simply can’t believe it.

    “But it’s all perfectly true. When the Germans marched into the city, I danced in the streets like a youthful ballerina and shouted ‘Heil Hitler’ until my lungs were hoarse. I even waved a small Nazi flag that I had snatched away from a beautiful little girl while her mother was looking the other way. When the Germans left the city, I rushed out to welcome the Americans with a bottle of excellent brandy and a basket of flowers. Nately gasped and was on his feet with amazement, the blood draining from his cheeks. ‘Major—de Coverley!’ he cried.
    ‘Do you know him?’ inquired the old man with delight. ‘What a charming coincidence!’ Nately was too astounded even to hear him. ‘So you’re the one who wounded Major – de Coverley!’ he exclaimed in horrified indignation. ‘How could you do such a thing?’ The fiendish old man was unperturbed. ‘How could I resist, you mean. You should have seen the arrogant old bore, sitting there so sternly in that car like the Almighty Himself, with his big, rigid head and his foolish, solemn face. What a tempting target he made! I got him in the eye with an American Beauty rose. I thought that was most appropriate. Don’t you?’
    ‘That was a terrible thing to do!’ Nately shouted at him reproachfully. ‘A vicious and criminal thing! Major—de Coverley is our squadron executive officer!’
    ‘Is he?’ teased the unregenerate old man, pinching his pointy jaw gravely in a parody of repentance. ‘In that case, you must give me credit for being impartial. When the Germans rode in, I almost stabbed a robust young Oberleutnant to death with a sprig of edelweiss.’ Nately was appalled and bewildered by the abominable old man’s inability to perceive the enormity of his offence. ‘Don’t you realize what you’ve done?’ he scolded vehemently. ‘Major—de Coverley is a noble and wonderful person, and everyone admires him.’
    ‘He’s a silly old fool who really has no right acting like a silly young fool. Where is he today? Dead?’ Nately answered softly with somber awe. ‘Nobody knows. He seems to have disappeared.’
    ‘You see? Imagine a man his age risking what little life he has left for something so absurd as a country.’ Nately was instantly up in arms again. ‘There is nothing so absurd about risking your life for your country!’ he declared.
    ‘Isn’t there?’ asked the old man. ‘What is a country? A country is a piece of land surrounded on all sides by boundaries, usually unnatural. Englishmen are dying for England, Americans are dying for America, Germans are dying for Germany, Russians are dying for Russia. There are now fifty or sixty countries fighting in this war. Surely so many countries can’t all be worth dying for.’
    ‘Anything worth living for,’ said Nately, ‘is worth dying for.’
    ‘And anything worth dying for,’ answered the sacrilegious old man, ‘is certainly worth living for. You know, you’re such a pure and naive young man that I almost feel sorry for you. How old are you? Twenty-five? Twenty-six?’
    ‘Nineteen,’ said Nately. ‘I’ll be twenty in January.’
    ‘If you live.’ The old man shook his head, wearing, for a moment, the same touchy, meditating frown of the fretful and disapproving old woman. ‘They are going to kill you if you don’t watch out, and I can see now that you are not going to watch out. Why don’t you use some sense and try to be more like me? You might live to be a hundred and seven, too.’
    ‘Because it’s better to die on one’s feet than live on one’s knees,’ Nately retorted with triumphant and lofty conviction. ‘I guess you’ve heard that saying before.’
    ‘Yes, I certainly have,’ mused the treacherous old man, smiling again. ‘But I’m afraid you have it backward. It is better to live on one’s feet than die on one’s knees. That is the way the saying goes.’
    ‘Are you sure?’ Nately asked with sober confusion. ‘It seems to make more sense my way.’
    ‘No, it makes more sense my way. Ask your friends.’ Nately turned to ask his friends and discovered they had gone. Yossarian and Dunbar had both disappeared. The old man roared with contemptuous merriment at Nately’s look of embarrassed surprise. Nately’s face darkened with shame. He vacillated helplessly for a few seconds and then spun himself around and fled inside the nearest of the hallways in search of Yossarian and Dunbar, hoping to catch them in time and bring them back to the rescue with news of the remarkable clash between the old man and Major—de Coverley.”

    Replace Fascists, Germans, Americans, etc with Democrats and Republicans… and you get the picture.

  • I had a blast last night watching all of the highlights from Tea Party Day.

    Dick Armey in a black cowboy hat is a character that a novelist couldn’t even come up with. ‘Ol Dick is a big believer in limited government and fiscal responsibility.

    I love hearing grown ups say “We are gonna take our country back!”

    How? By voting for Republicans? Why? Because they are lily-white panty sniffers?

    I don’t get it and I never will.

  • I remember Dick Armey taking the high road when the partisans were beating the war drums. His involvement with the Tea Parties actually makes me think better of them. But he does look like Boss Hogg with the cowboy hat.

    Man, I got home last night and watched the insufferably sad Flash Forward. I hope they cancel that soon, so I don’t have to watch any more… but I didn’t watch your two videos, so I can’t say thank you yet for what I imagine is a very kind gift.

    The Tea Partiers … or the rest of us … will get our country back when we pry it from the cold dead fingers of the multinational conglomerates who own it.

  • RW

    One of the most long held traditions in the human condition is holding someone else to a standard higher than you hold yourself. I’m reminded of that constantly.

    To wit, oh, that we would have had the curiosity towards the anti-war protestors & their makeup versus that of the tea party movement. Back in the early days of the blogosphere (loved your “powder blue background of atrios” thing in an earlier post, smijer) the right was begging, openly, for the MSM to cover what was actually happening at most of the anti-war rallies. We rarely, if ever, saw pictures of the sponsors of many of the rallies (A.N.S.W.E.R.) or of the Bush/Hitler posters, or the “war for oil” posters or films of Bush being burned in effigy. No, we had to rely on the right side of the web for that. The news reels were filled with a cross-section of citizens across the world (including Meredith Viera, keeping those journalistic standards alive) who were just using their God-given right to protest against the actions of their respective governments. Their true intentions, their backgrounds, their ideologies or their radical affiliations were not of any consequence and any embarrassing behavior was only captured by the cameras of right-wing bloggers or Fox News. A LOT of embarrassing behavior, I might add. Most of the time, the only question would be which expletive would be used in the anti-Bush chants.

    Back then, questioning the motives of the protesters was a charge against their patriotism. A.N.S.W.E.R., the pro-Palestinian groups, the *few* anti-military signs/chants, the anti-Israel home-made signs, were off the radar screen. Of course, that was back then, and that’s what standard for judging protesters was set at….for them.

    Today, well, the standard has been changed. Today, if there’s anyone holding a sign that anyone might find offensive, it’s the lede. That’s the story.
    Today, if someone uses their God-given right to protest the actions of their government, the first thing to check is if they’re white (which means they’re racist, tee-hee).
    Today, we must check the background of any government protestor (excuse me, “anti-government extremist”. Rachel has a speshul coming soon & the talking points need updatin’ so we can marginalize an entire group).
    Today, if you don’t support the actions of the government, you must meet certain criteria in order to have your behavior explained (have you ever received government aid? Do you pay what we think is enough in taxes in order to protest? Have you ever been in the presence of someone who has been in the presence of someone I can hint is a racist? Do you work for a company that I think is eco-friendly enough or who I think has paid enough in taxes?), otherwise your opinion doesn’t matter as much.

    Again, remnants of a long held tradition of the human condition. I just keep telling myself that if Chiper hits .280 with 20 homers it’d be considered a down year whereas if Nate Mclouth does it he’ll be in line for a contract extension. Sometimes there’s a reason that someone else holds you to a higher standard: by definition, they hold themselves to a lower standard.

    but I’d be curious to learn how many of those who are Taxed Enough Already are among the 47% who pay no federal income tax

    I welcome studies like that. I’d LOOOOOOOVVEE to see the how much in taxes the people who don’t think I pay enough fork over. I’m sure Maxine Waters’ constituents are wishing for single-payer because they’re the productive ones who are looking out for my well being. I denounce my racism for pointing out not just possibly the most liberal member of congress, but a black member of congress. This is 2010, after all, and you’re not allowed to do that. Yeah, I joke, but if I were at a site w/folks who didn’t know me, you guys know someone would chime in with that charge. Could we get a breakdown of the folks wanting Obamacare versus their income tax liabilities? I’m not so sure that it would come out asthetically so well for the proponents of bashing tea partiers, since the poster children for Obama-care were the downtrodden of society who were lacking the means necessary to pay the debts that they incurred. The downtrodden, when pushing Obamacare, are defined as “poor”. The downtrodden, when protesting Obamacare or government expansion, on the right defined as “ignorant racist redneck dregs of society”. After all, their signs are sometimes misspelled (sadly, SEIU doesn’t give out free signs to the right). The left does most definitely win the battle-of-the-signs, I must admit.

    Of course, we can take that argument all the way to its logical conclusion: only land owners get to vote.

    (and how many work for a corporation that is among the 66% of them who pay no federal income tax).

    Do they really have control over that? Does a welder on the line for a Toyota manufacturing plant have less of a voice to protest government action if, due to the negative stories based on horrendous Toyota safety standards, Toyota doesn’t make enough money this year to pay corporate income taxes? Sure, the guy working for Apple will probabaly have a company that pays taxes, but the fellow who signed up for Blackberry certainly is no less standing simply because his company lost the war for market share, does he?

    And what is wrong with a company not paying the corporate tax? By definition, it means that company did not earn enough profit to be privy to be eligible for taxes. First, it’s a tough economy & many companies fell short, and second there’s a quick & easy way to increase profits in the long-term while sales are down: layoffs. [disclosure: I work for a mammoth company that pays many millions in taxes. Not that it matters] If a company makes enough profit, it pays. I don’t see the big deal or why the workplace of someone holding an anti-Obama sign on the street matters in this case when it most certainly didn’t matter back in ’02 if that protestor was a dope-smoking college punk who’d never worked a day in their life or if they were a union member doing the bidding of their Local or if they were an AFSCME member protesting the cost of the military while pushing for more gov’t benefits. That is, unless the standards now are, once again, higher than they were then.

    percentage of Tea Partiers who live in Tennessee where the regressive tax structure places extra burdens on the poor and middle class and drives business out of state.

    So, stifling taxes are hinderances for business expansion & curtail economic growth for localities. Reckon anyone’s told some tea partiers? :) [I joke!]

    . The “Don’t Tread On Me” t-shirts along with the social security check stubs just absolutely tickles the shit out of me.

    Why?
    A good portion of their income was withheld for, on average, 40 years, as part of a payment for a mandatory income insurance program. Are they somehow hypocrites because they received their money? Is that the way the scheme is to now be parlayed; take from someone for decades & then if they start to draw on their credits they’re incapable of having an opinion that goes against the government? If so, well played. Removes independent thought or the freedom to resist coersion, sure, but the ends does justify the means.

    “Long time taxpayer, first time protester” Really? What is it that suddenly got you so excited?

    Their answer: The now-obligatory yearly trillion dollar deficits are a start.
    The retorts from the left: they’re racists who are upset at a black president (and it’s not his fault that his budgets are unsustainable, any way).

    Yeah, obviously, it’s gotta be bigotry. C’mon, Buck, you can drop the passive-aggressive “they don’t like the black guy” thing. The only people who care about Obama’s skin are the far fringes of the right who hate it and….just about every person on the left. Most of America has moved on & the aspect of this week’s celebration of a 1.3 trillion dollar deficit (we’re getting better, see!) is the elephant in the room while you’re pointing at the racist 7 blocks away.

    “Their guy” just finished an 8 year stint not long ago. And they were as quite as mice for his entire tenure

    Interesting. Independents & soft Republicans voted en masse for Democrats in 2006 based on the campaign of getting us out of war and ending the “culture of corruption” in congress (remember that phrase?). Independents & soft Republicans voted en masse for Obama in 2008 based on his campaign of getting us out of war and ending the special interests in Washington, the unfunded out-of-control spending, a campaign against the Patriot act, the promise of open debates on topics like health care on C-SPAN instead of passing bills that haven’t been read, the promise to stop giving bailouts to businesses that fail, a promise not to raise taxes on anyone making less than $250K (that one didn’t last long) or pork to politicians.

    But, hey, if those independents & soft Republicans don’t like the result…..they’re stupid racists who are just mad because they watch Glenn Beck & listen to Limbaugh, right?

    Maybe if the left just held itself to HALF the standard that they hold the right to?

    smijer,
    I share many of your cynicisms. But, some things can change. Sure I may not like it, you may not like it, Buck may not like it, but the citizenry can sure change things. If on the day after Barack Obama was elected, would you have placed a bet that the following would take by the end of 2010:
    -Ted Kennedy’s seat would be held by a Republican running against Obama’s health care plan
    -Joe Biden’s senate seat would go to a Republican.
    -Barack Obama’s senate seat would likely go to a Republican.
    -Chris Dodd would be forced to retire because he was in for a shellacking at the ballot box.
    -New Jersey would vote a conservative Republican to replace Jon Corzine
    -Harry Reid would be in for a Mike Tyson versus Michael Spinks style beating.
    -Sarah Palin would no longer be governor of Alaska (well, the voters didn’t have much to do with that one, but it was still a shocker)
    -John McCain would be in for the fight of his life in the Arizona primary
    -Evan Bayh would resign in order to avoid losing
    -Arlen Specter would switch to the Demoratic party in order to avoid being defeated in the GOP primary

    And things are just getting started. Yeah, things can change. I guess the public at large hasn’t wisend up enough say thank you to Himself, yet. I guess I know what that makes them…

  • RW

    Wow. I can type fast.

  • I share many of your cynicisms. But, some things can change. Sure I may not like it, you may not like it, Buck may not like it, but the citizenry can sure change things. If on the day after Barack Obama was elected, would you have placed a bet that the following would take by the end of 2010:
    -Ted Kennedy’s seat would be held by a Republican running against Obama’s health care plan
    -Joe Biden’s senate seat would go to a Republican.
    -Barack Obama’s senate seat would likely go to a Republican.
    -Chris Dodd would be forced to retire because he was in for a shellacking at the ballot box.
    -New Jersey would vote a conservative Republican to replace Jon Corzine
    -Harry Reid would be in for a Mike Tyson versus Michael Spinks style beating.
    -Sarah Palin would no longer be governor of Alaska (well, the voters didn’t have much to do with that one, but it was still a shocker)
    -John McCain would be in for the fight of his life in the Arizona primary
    -Evan Bayh would resign in order to avoid losing
    -Arlen Specter would switch to the Demoratic party in order to avoid being defeated in the GOP primary

    This hit just right in time… check out the new post – metaphor… And, yeah — it turns out the fleas … I mean people… can really change things. They can change whose turn it is to sit in the master’s lap and do his bidding. The Parties will continue to swap back and forth and scratch at the fleas… but they will always be at the service of the corporations who are really in charge.

    I dig your complaints.. I don’t think it takes away much from the notion that some perspective is needed. When one of the countries with the lowest tax rates in the first world – especially on the wealthy – where nearly 50% of the people have no federal income tax burden at all and even fewer of the corporations pay income tax – is home to a major protest movement about taxes, then some perspective is needed.

    When people who live in the state with possibly the most onerous tax burdens on the most people in the country are organizing to protest federal taxes… then some perspective is needed.

    And the whole thing about the Constitution… Obama has continued the Bush administration’s disregard for the Constitution in the “war on terror”. But his domestic policies – love ‘em or hate ‘em – have been consistent with the Constitution and case law. So, when people talk about how having the lowest taxes in the industrialized world is Unconstitutional, but whistle past the graveyard that contains the corpse of the Fourth Amendment… some perspective is needed.

    Hey… I’m with you about the deficits… Why not a protest movement called “Indebted Carelessly and Extraneously” (not started by a Wall Street Broker on a cable news program). ICE – too cool down that hot tea with some perspective. I’d join that. If I wanted to continue being a flea.

  • Buck

    Yeah, things can change

    Sure they can. But they stay the same.

    And you know how the Social Security system works and has always worked. I am not even gonna go into that.

    And I am sure the guys at those Tea Party events have lots and lots of black friends.

  • RW

    And you know how the Social Security system works and has always worked. I am not even gonna go into that.

    You’re taxed on every dollar you earn through your entire life. Then, when you retire, you’re eligible to start receiving your payments from the money that was taxed, based on a formula of points based on your income/payments. The question is: What part of that makes being a tea party participant somehow incorrigible?

    And I am sure the guys at those Tea Party events have lots and lots of black friends.

    I’m sure the folks at Balloon Juice were lookers and economic successes. See how easy that is? Just throw out something based on nothing and, voila, a snarky comment. Wheeeeee, I just “pwned” an entire group of people from the comfort of my computer chair. This is fun, let’s go further: “rap fans are criminals”. Zing! “grunge rock fans are tattooed punks who live in their mama’s basement” Burn!

    What advancement in the conversation took place? None. If you truly think the tea party movement is made up of a bunch of ignorant racists & therefore they’re no different than any other group of hicks haranguing about the ills of their own lives that were uneventful: duly noted.

    Prepare yourself for November, though, Buck.

    BTW, since the south is made up of 20-25 percent black citizens, I’d put $10 on any random tea party participant having twice the actual number of “black friends” than the average Vermont resident has EVER HAD in their lives since there are < 250K blacks residing in the entire deep-blue-liberal state.

    ——-

    By the way, you were pissed off that Bush went on a spending spree, that the GOP congress acted like a bunch of dolts and they had no idea as to what they were doing & acted in a corrupt fashion that was against the wishes of many of their constituents, so you bolted & began to abhor the Republican party.

    You know, like most of the tea partiers. They just haven't come around to endorsing mandatory health insurance, endless bailouts, gov't ownership of GM (what is it called when the government owns the means of production, again?), the President deciding which car dealerships close, having a secretary of treasury that is a certifiable millionaire tax cheat who laments tax cuts for the rich, etc. Or, as we know it today, pro-black.

  • RW

    The Parties will continue to swap back and forth and scratch at the fleas… but they will always be at the service of the corporations who are really in charge.

    A. Term limits. Term limits. Term limits. Yeah, the new candidates will still be serving from the parties, but eliminating the absolute CRAP that comes from the ‘office-for-life’ folks would bring us closer to the part about representatives actually representing people instead of the parties. That’s one reason why I support the tea parties, even though I have not & prolly will never attend: they hate the political parties. Most of our problems have come from the GOP & DNC and the lapdogs who support them (looking in the direction of the press).
    B. Once A happens, it’s up to us to keep the turnstiles churning as to representation. We gotta not only end the tradition of voting Rockefeller, Lott, Byrd, Thurmond, Helms, Kennedy, simply because they are who they are, but we gotta be aware of what’s going on. I endorse your interest in the amount of “skin in the game” that the tea partiers have…it is a problem that 47% do not pay income taxes. That is scandalous.
    C. If corporations really ran things, there would be no such thing as Sarbanes/Oxley or diversity training or the EEOC. Complete.Waste.Of.Money. If corporations really ran things, there would be state-run single-payer medical coverage, paid for via income taxes and there would be no idiotic “employer matched” portion of social security taxation (which is a crock) and thus corporations would be able to eliminate 75% of their HR/Benefits personnel and most of their corporate tax law fees. Oh, corporations have more than their say, don’t get me wrong. As do public unions, as does the NAACP, as does the NRA, as do many other entities. I’ve spent too much time & too many corporate dollars navigating my way through federal regulations put forth through Democratic and Republican congresses to accept that the Bildeberger set is running the show. Besides, business is what helped build American dominance. I’m sure we agree on the little things about biz regs and the like….trust me, I’m with you. But every penny of taxation on a business is a penny added to the cost of a product/service. EVERY.PENNY. I’ve priced, personally, more then 500 products from my old Industrial Engineering days and I can tell you that it is standard business practice to include the corporate tax rate into the cost of each and every product. EVERY. Businesses never pay one cent in income taxes, the customer does. Increasing the biz tax increases the price of the product. It’s truly no different than imposing a dime/gallon tax on the big oil companies and then acting shocked when every gallon of gasoline on the planet suddenly goes up ten cents.

    When one of the countries with the lowest tax rates in the first world – especially on the wealthy – where nearly 50% of the people have no federal income tax burden at all and even fewer of the corporations pay income tax – is home to a major protest movement about taxes, then some perspective is needed.

    That the country is the richest, most accomplished and economically envied in the history of the universe, it is rational to understand the hesitancy to adopt measures that imitate inferior economic models (european social democracies). Far left/NYT (but I repeat myself) wishes aside, the people who are riding in the back of the cart aren’t the one’s doing the complaining that they’re tired of pulling the cart. Heck, I’m pulling the cart and a few weeks ago they officially increased my tax burden and even I’m not inclined to attend a rally, although I’ve been personally invited on numerous occasions. I can only imagine the personal “skin in the game” that some have in order to pack up the vehicle & drive to God-knows-where to hold a sign, even if the liberal journalism major who is seeking to discredit the movement goes out of their way to interview someone with a family member receiving social security. Looking at one’s tax liabilities and saying “yeah, I pay enough” may not require more perspective. Perhaps they’re already pulling a cart that is full. Perhaps bewilderment that we need even heavier carts isn’t out of bounds.

    So, when people talk about how having the lowest taxes in the industrialized world is Unconstitutional, but whistle past the graveyard that contains the corpse of the Fourth Amendment… some perspective is needed.

    I plead ignornace. I don’t know what you’re talking about vis-a-vis unconstitutionality, as I’ve heard that the Dems are trying to push budget talks out past the election, so talk about taxes being unconstitutional is new to me (and crazy). Thus, I’ll defer to you.

  • RW

    Oh, I left off probably the biggest item from the “change” list: the election of Barack Obama, to go along with huge majorities of Democrats running both houses. We’ve gone from Clinton & Dem controlled congresses in the early 90′s to GOP dominated gov’t of the early ’00s to Dem control.

    Yeah, we can change things. It’s just that right now, people don’t appear to be loving the changes all that much.

  • it is a problem that 47% do not pay income taxes. That is scandalous.

    That’s federal income taxes of course. They still pay state income taxes where applicable. And, especially in Tennessee, this 47% are the ones who are hit hardest by the majority of federal excise taxes and state and local taxes.

    Of the two, I find it more scandalous that two thirds of corporations are not paying federal income tax.

    When I say that the corporations are in control, I am indulging in a bit of hyperbole… but I’m not wrong. Sarbanes Oxley, the EEOC, etc… started as efforts to regulate and rein in corporations. But they are a waste of money as you say, because they were effectively neutered by the time they passed. So, it may cost a few pennies for the corps to comply, but they need not worry about cramping their styles to do so.

    Who is David Vitter serving when he delays EPA classification of formaldehyde in building materials? His constituents or his payday?

    But yeah, it’s hyperbole. The truth of the matter is a tad more subtle but it boils down to the fact that politicians serve those who can get them elected – and that’s not “the pipple” as Zoro the gay blade would say. Only a tiny percent of the people really even know what they want or what the issues are (only 2% of Tea Partiers know that they got a tax cut under Obama, for instance), or what they can expect from a particular politician. Majorities get thirty minutes of cable news per week and get the rest of their news from e-mail chain letters.

    The people who control who get elected are the ones that underwrite and who run the campaigns. By and large, that is corporations (and if it wasn’t last year, it will be next because there are no longer any limits on what a corporation can do to sponsor its legislative lap-dogs), and other special interest groups like churches and unions. These are the hands that feed politicians, and these are the hands that are unlikely to be bitten by them.

    It’s funny… parties do change hands, but what goes on in Washington never changes significantly.

    Maybe term limits would help. But why would a politician, or his owner want to put a premature end to the gravy train? Ask Zach Wamp, who got elected on promises of voluntary term limits… in 1994.

  • It’s just that right now, people don’t appear to be loving the changes all that much.

    The most significant “change” I see is the change from DFH’s bitching to Tea Partiers bitching.

  • the people who are riding in the back of the cart aren’t the one’s doing the complaining that they’re tired of pulling the cart.

    The people pulling the cart are the workers, and as I mentioned , while many of them don’t pay a federal income tax, they do have a pretty heavy tax burden – especially in Tennessee. The wealthy who pay significant federal income tax and who are enjoying a thirty year slide to one of the lowest marginal tax rates in the industrialized world, but whose income continues to climb mercurially (while everyone else’s is falling)… well I imagine they fancy themselves as the ones who pull the cart.

  • RW

    and that’s not “the pipple” as Zoro the gay blade would say

    You have no idea how high your stock just rose with that quote. I think that it’s “pipples“, btw, plural form. Yep, I *love* that movie. Phenomenal reference. If there was ever a movie that begged for a sequel, it’s one that broke the mold for introducing a protagonist gay character on the scene. Any time someone says the word “neck” I go off on a Ron Liebman/Alcalde Estaban “neck! Neck! Neck-lace!” stream.

    But why would a politician, or his owner want to put a premature end to the gravy train?

    It’s up to us to either force them to implement them legislatively or we can do it for them prematurely.

    Another reason why I endorse the tea parties: they’re just as likely to vote against a Republican as they are a Democrat (although they’re obviously conservative). As long as we rely on parties we’ll have the GOP putting up the Wamps of the world in districts that are conservative & which give us a choice between a lying hypocrite conservative versus an idiotic Democratic party that puts up liberal pols to oppose them, leaving Wamp with a victory. Sometimes the party wise up (Zell Miller in GA, keeping power Dem while acknowledging the public’s mood or Romney in MA, keeping the gov seat GOP while acknowledging the state’s left-moderate mood), most of the time they don’t.

    If they’re willing to vote themselves tax hikes (Boxer, Feinstein, etc.) in order to appease their base, they can vote themselves term limits, I say.

  • RW

    Interesting when one takes into account that Olbermann has bragged on his Daily Kos diaries (imagine, for 2 seconds, a Fox host having set-aside blogs on Free Republic) that his & Maddow’s shows have generated at least $100 million in profits for MSNBC.

    Payoffs for the network openly shilling for an Obama victory & passage of his plans? Should media outwardly promote specific policies that line their own pockets w/o disclosure?

  • RW, I don’t get it… does GE own MSNBC?

    Should media outwardly promote specific policies that line their own pockets w/o disclosure?

    What are you, some kind of socialist? Of course they should! That’s what they’re in business for!

Leave a Reply

 

 

 

You can use these HTML tags

<a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>