For one to take a stand against something that does not seem good for society, is not equivalent to hatred.

You’re right. There is a lot of hatred still in this country where it concerns gays, but what you and Rick Warren do doesn’t rise to that level.

On the other hand, Warren thoughtlessly takes a made-up position about what’s “good for society” and considers this un-reflective opinion more important than the good of the people who are actually affected by his efforts to dissolve their families. This shows that he lacks respect for others if they are gay.

I could make an argument every bit as thoughtful and respectful about what is “good for society” that devout Christians shouldn’t be allowed to marry since there is such a greater likelihood of divorce in that group. It would be stupid and thoughtless of me, and disrepectful of Christians. But it wouldn’t be any worse than what Rick Warren is doing to gay people.

That said, he has removed some of the anti-gay rhetoric from his web-site lately, and he may actually be in the process of learning that gay people are no less deserving of respect than others even as we speak. I hope so.

Smijer said,

“The why is obvious: it’s a label. It’s a label that says “you are not what we are”. And, even if it’s appropriate for God’s self-appointed representatives on earth to do that in their pulpits, it is not an appropriate action of the state.”

I say that differences exist and whether or not we like that, it is true. The state recognizes this and it is very appropriate. Consider when a law is passed that makes it illegal for narcotics to be sold to citizens on the street, but perfectly legal in a pharmacy or an 18 year old cannot buy liquor, but a 21 and up is allowed. Another example would be that it is legal for a citizen to obtain a drivers license, but not a foreigner.

” Right is more important than Holy. The other way around is … bad.”

Strictly your opinion. Even if your opinion was the correct one, “right” must be defined. That is why we have laws. I think it is right for parents to be notified when their underage child seeks an abortion. You probably think that is not right. In a true democracy, the majority rules on these issues.

“So, what we are dealing with is someone who is willing to campaign against another person’s marriage based either on a lie or on an ignorance of personal, political convenience.”

Marriage is an institution. That means an established law, custom, or practice. Because of this, it has to be defined and in this case it is an institution that is licensed by the state and therefore the state has a right to define it and to regulate it. There has to be a definition and guidelines, such as whether a person can marry their brother or sister or have more wives than one and whether a marriage can be recognized if it is between any two people other than a man and a woman, etc.

“There is no way that, without Proposition 8, a preacher preaching against homosexuality can be classified as hate speech. In fact, there is no such thing as “hate speech” in the U.S. or any state’s legal code, and what is commonly referred to as “hate speech” is protected by the First Amendment, just like any other kind of speech.”

While it is true that there is not a “hate-speech law” in our country, there are many countries who already have laws that punish some speech. Why shouldn’t Christians be concerned here? Many of the very things that were feared a few years back are now a reality, such as tax dollars being used to support organizations that promote homosexuality and abortion. Obama is promising to force doctors to perform abortions which will cause many Christian doctors to stop practicing medicine. Parents who accept the teaching of the Bible have already been forced to either allow their children to be taught about homosexuality at a very tender age or remove their child from government schools. Why should we believe that ‘hate-speech’ laws are not just around the corner, especially with a liberal executive and legislative branch in power? Before the next election, it is very likely that all three branches will be controlled by liberals, so convince me there is nothing to fear. .

Now, having said all of that, I will say that it does not mean that Christians hate homosexuals when they want marriage defined as a union between a man and a woman. I do not hate Mormons, but I do not want polygamy made legal. I do not hate people who are addicted to heroin, but I do not want the drug sold legally. For one to take a stand against something that does not seem good for society, is not equivalent to hatred. Many in our society are seeking to have the world believe that Christians are full of hate because they stand by the teachings of the Bible. While it is true that some people claim to be Christians who do hate others, that does not make true Christians hate filled. Yet, no distinctions are made when it comes to the rhetoric.

and let gay people enjoy the same rights as the rest of us

Take it up with the Democratic party, in power with huge majorities, and the president elect, the Democratic voters in California, etc.

It appears that the liberal interest groups say “get mad at the mormons & Rick Warren” (and include the words ‘civil rights’ as much as possible) and the hounds are unleashed. Why aren’t the voters in CA called hatemongers & bigots, liars and hypocrites?

Could it be that this is manufactured outrage that is pure politics?

Why no fight for polygamists to have ‘the same rights as the rest of us’? Do we have to wait until they have political clout within the DNC?

BTW, Merry Christmas & Happy Hannukah (and happy festivus) guys.

…Why doesnt the mail run on time??

…Why doesnt the garbage man pickup the crap at the same time?

…If McDonalds brought the McRib Sandwich back by popular demand….then why was it dropped in the first place??

One can be open minded, thoughtful, loving and express decency towards their fellow man while at the same time differing with the PFAW & Jane Hamsher on a certain political issue.

Don’t get me wrong, I think he has a heart – it’s just that you see more of it when his influence and money stands to gain from going by it.

RW, I am angry with Obama for the pick. That was the point of the post. It doesn’t go much past that, but I do think Obama sold out on this one in a bad way.