Atrios:
You know, the wingnutosphere was always populated by lunatic morons, but back in the old days we actually felt obliged to engage them. Now we just mock them.
Not a very nice thing to say, no matter how accurate (in some ways) the characterization of the folks like Hugh Hewitt & Glenn Reynolds. But I’m not going to get all wrapped up in the civility debate – that’s another issue.
Atrios’ point is that we do more service to enlightened politics by mocking, rather than engaging those in the blogosphere (or on the TV, or wherever) who say rotten, ridiculous things and often get believed or admired for it – at least when they have already put themselves in a position to be marginalized by the disastrous track record their ideas have had while their people were in power. Maybe so.
But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t engage. I do. I prefer to engage people who listen and argue rationally, even when they espouse ideas that are (at best) sub-par… People I can make friends with & enjoy conversation with. But, to a certain extent, I’ll link and criticize, or leave comments for just about anyone.
Why?
Two reasons. People on blogs are usually at their partisan, tribal worst. They can appear much dumber than they truly are, because they can say from the safety of the internet, things that they would actually have to think about before saying in real life. In fact, the people on the other side of the tubes are people. They have an organ at the top of their neck that is capable, under certain circumstances, of performing a job called “thinking” and another called “learning”. It’s not too much to hope that they can be prodded to do so.
Second reason is Google. Millions of people of average intelligence but an unfortunate tendency to be impressionable surf these internets. Some of them read not just a blog entry, but the comments with it. Some of them take a moment to google what they read in a blog entry to see what others are saying about it (for purposes of fact-checking, or just in hopes of getting more red-meat reinforcement). I like to think that when they do so, they will find a comment or a related blog entry that will help them find a better perspective on whatever it is under discussion. So, if comments are allowed, and I have an extra five minutes (or half-day on a “popular” righty site) – you’ll find me there. And I think we should all do that.
It’s hard work – when you are “trolling” (as they call it) you have to be extra polite & extra sensitive. You can’t go in mocking. You have to bite your tongue. Otherwise, your comments get deleted or you get banned & you’ve wasted your time. But I think it’s worth it. If every righty-blog had a few smart trolls who subscribed to these notions, more innocent readers wouldn’t come away with only the righty side of the story. And I think that would be a good thing.
It’s usually very easy to discern who is capable of carrying on a productive debate with & who isn’t (Duncan Black pointing out who isn’t a viable source is irony in itself) & it’s always good to get an overview of what the ‘opposition’ is saying. Speaking from “the right”, a few good sources for you guys on the left to get an idea of what’s going on amongst we fascists are hotair.com & Ace of Spades. No, you won’t like the content and definitely not the comments (no comments section anywhere is applicable, period) but the overall subject matter and the general discussion. I’ve learned that usually the last place to go for the actual line of thinking that the ‘other’ side has is to trust who my side says it is (meaning James Dobson & Jerry Falwell are poor places to get righty opinion).
And, btw, I’ve tried all sorts of ways to engage on some lefty sites (sarcasm, bomb-throwing, politeness, high-mindedness, olive-branch-extension) and the results are usually the same, hence my contention that comments sections that have more than 100 comments on any individual post is immediately ignorable. No ‘big’ site that has comments will have high-minded debates. The ‘I get to say whatever I want behind this anonymous IP wall’ itch is just too hard to scratch. No way Misha (right) or Duncan Black (left) say any of the stuff they say via their keyboard to anyone’s face & the same goes for many/most of their commenters.
You’re not going to get a rational debate at LGF (a good source of Islamist activity) or atrios (a good source for left-wing talking points) and thus I do not and will never try…..don’t read their comments, ever (and read their web sites maybe once per month, each). Smaller sites with people who hold ideology above party is the way to go, IMO. I have a much more productive time discussing with people who are more in line with liberalism than people who are props for the Democratic party & I assume that the reciprocal is also true.
Party flaks suck and are a waste of time, IMO.
Thanks Ricky. I just put both on my “must read daily” list.
As one who spent the Clinton years as a “righty” and now find myself spending the Bush years as a “lefty” most of the time I find myself wondering which end is up.
Usually I read comments for entertainment value but I have been educated by a few comments I ran across. I never consider comments a waste of time. They are usually funnier than prime time television provided everybody gets an equal shot at the other guy.
I guess as far as “big blogs” go I spend more time at Balloon Juice than at any other.
Is it righty or lefty?
smij,
I read this yesterday, and I’ve been thinking about it since. I’m just not sure if my blood pressure can take it…
alice – you do enough already – I’m talking about people like me who don’t do anything else.
RW – Yeah – well I don’t personally read comments unless it’s just for entertainment value, but I’ll post them anywhere I think they’ll last longer than it took to write them. You never know who might be reading.