Comments on: Election Time - Endorsements http://tete-tete-tete.com/148/election-time-endorsements/ Tue, 18 Nov 2008 22:18:34 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: smijer http://tete-tete-tete.com/148/election-time-endorsements/#comment-354 smijer Mon, 06 Nov 2006 00:15:55 +0000 http://tete-tete-tete.com/148/election-time-endorsements/#comment-354 <blockquote>Around 70% of America isn’t “thoughtless or misled”.</blockquote> Really? That would mean that anything on which 70% of Americans agree is true. Is that just now, or always? If it was always, then abolition was a really bad idea until the last 30 years or so, you know? If it is just now, then what has happened to make us so infallible lately? <blockquote>Does Bush get any credit on the war, then, since it was 60% in favor back in ‘03 but is around 60% unfavorable now?</blockquote> No bonus points for being on the wrong side of an issue, whether popular or unpopular.

Around 70% of America isn’t “thoughtless or misled”.

Really? That would mean that anything on which 70% of Americans agree is true. Is that just now, or always? If it was always, then abolition was a really bad idea until the last 30 years or so, you know? If it is just now, then what has happened to make us so infallible lately?

Does Bush get any credit on the war, then, since it was 60% in favor back in ‘03 but is around 60% unfavorable now?

No bonus points for being on the wrong side of an issue, whether popular or unpopular.

]]> By: RW http://tete-tete-tete.com/148/election-time-endorsements/#comment-353 RW Sun, 05 Nov 2006 22:47:31 +0000 http://tete-tete-tete.com/148/election-time-endorsements/#comment-353 Personally, I cannot fathom why people think there should be such a thing as a "department of education" since it's totally useless, as well as spending on public broadcasting since royalties from merchandise of "Sesame Street" characters alone would fund something like MSNBC with ease, but that's just me and I realize that any mention of getting rid of the DOE or public broadcasting assistance is political suicide (I'm sure you remember the "they want to kill Big-Bird" campaign). Further, I don't get the 'gangsta rap" thing, because it's a bunch of thugs who rip of real artists' music and simply throw in offensive rhymes on top of the sampled music. Andrew Dice Clay would've been the greatest rapper ever if he'd only found the right tune. :) But, all that doesn't make folks who wish for stuff that I don't want "thoughtless or misled". Around 70% of America isn't "thoughtless or misled". <blockquote>and the candidate has done the necessary soul-searching to get to the right side of an unpopular issue</blockquote> Does Bush get any credit on the war, then, since it was 60% in favor back in '03 but is around 60% unfavorable now? Personally, I cannot fathom why people think there should be such a thing as a “department of education” since it’s totally useless, as well as spending on public broadcasting since royalties from merchandise of “Sesame Street” characters alone would fund something like MSNBC with ease, but that’s just me and I realize that any mention of getting rid of the DOE or public broadcasting assistance is political suicide (I’m sure you remember the “they want to kill Big-Bird” campaign). Further, I don’t get the ‘gangsta rap” thing, because it’s a bunch of thugs who rip of real artists’ music and simply throw in offensive rhymes on top of the sampled music. Andrew Dice Clay would’ve been the greatest rapper ever if he’d only found the right tune. :) But, all that doesn’t make folks who wish for stuff that I don’t want “thoughtless or misled”.

Around 70% of America isn’t “thoughtless or misled”.

and the candidate has done the necessary soul-searching to get to the right side of an unpopular issue

Does Bush get any credit on the war, then, since it was 60% in favor back in ‘03 but is around 60% unfavorable now?

]]> By: smijer http://tete-tete-tete.com/148/election-time-endorsements/#comment-336 smijer Sat, 04 Nov 2006 18:43:40 +0000 http://tete-tete-tete.com/148/election-time-endorsements/#comment-336 RW, you're right that Ford (probably) couldn't win if he supported gay marriage - ... actually, I'll come back to that, but for the sake of argument, you're right. However, that doesn't mean he has to demagogue against it, either. It's quite legitimate for a politician to say "I don't support gay marriage" when asked, & keep his mouth shut the rest of the time - at least that is a legitimate way to stay politically viable when other issues are at stake. Coming back to the premise - I think there is something wrong if a candidate cannot convince voters that he is worth their vote in spite of, or even because of his stance on an issue where the majority of voters are currently thoughtless or misled, and the candidate has done the necessary soul-searching to get to the right side of an unpopular issue. RW, you’re right that Ford (probably) couldn’t win if he supported gay marriage - … actually, I’ll come back to that, but for the sake of argument, you’re right. However, that doesn’t mean he has to demagogue against it, either. It’s quite legitimate for a politician to say “I don’t support gay marriage” when asked, & keep his mouth shut the rest of the time - at least that is a legitimate way to stay politically viable when other issues are at stake.

Coming back to the premise - I think there is something wrong if a candidate cannot convince voters that he is worth their vote in spite of, or even because of his stance on an issue where the majority of voters are currently thoughtless or misled, and the candidate has done the necessary soul-searching to get to the right side of an unpopular issue.

]]> By: RW http://tete-tete-tete.com/148/election-time-endorsements/#comment-335 RW Sat, 04 Nov 2006 18:16:47 +0000 http://tete-tete-tete.com/148/election-time-endorsements/#comment-335 BTW, I left this out but if I were a citizen of Tennessee, this registered Republican would probably be voting for Ford, although I come at it from an angle of ignorance because I know nothing - NOTHING - about Corker. BTW, I left this out but if I were a citizen of Tennessee, this registered Republican would probably be voting for Ford, although I come at it from an angle of ignorance because I know nothing - NOTHING - about Corker.

]]> By: RW http://tete-tete-tete.com/148/election-time-endorsements/#comment-334 RW Sat, 04 Nov 2006 18:14:04 +0000 http://tete-tete-tete.com/148/election-time-endorsements/#comment-334 Great post. I'll say the same thing about Harold Ford that I've said to my conservative friends when they'd diss Zell Miller (before he moved to the right), Arnold or Rudy: someone representing an entire state is a bit different than a party suit in congress, therefore they simply cannot tow the party or ideological line in all instances. I'd prefer Rudy & Arnold be true 2nd amendment backers, but they're not and neither would've won if they'd have had a hardcore gun-rights stance. Pure and simple. If Harold Ford endorses gay marriage, he'd be lucky to get much above 40% and that's the cold truth. If he swung to the left on many of the issues that you like, he'd lose and lose badly. The reason is that the state of Tennessee isn't as far left as you are (and California or NYC aren't anywhere near as far right as me). Up until '02 I lived in state that was run by Democrats my whole life & I wondered if it was just me or was the state really that much further to the left than myself. After a while, it moved right. Tennessee is moderate to conservative, after a few years with some leftward leaning back when it had Sasser & Gore as senators...neither were flaming lefties at the time (Gore has gone off the charts in a leftward direction since losing in '00, however) but definitely a bit left of center. The state has moved a bit to the right - not that much, though, and thus there's no way that you're going to get someone representing the whole state who is going to be really in line with your ideology, which I'd say is more in line with the modern-day "liberal" than a moderate-to-liberal like Ford, who is campaigning as a classic southern conservative in order to garner the independent vote & blue dog Democrats. I think he's run a masterful campaign, personally, and has a bright future. But, ideologically, Howard Dean he is not. And for the time being, Howard Dean clones won't win in TN. My two cents.... Great post.

I’ll say the same thing about Harold Ford that I’ve said to my conservative friends when they’d diss Zell Miller (before he moved to the right), Arnold or Rudy: someone representing an entire state is a bit different than a party suit in congress, therefore they simply cannot tow the party or ideological line in all instances. I’d prefer Rudy & Arnold be true 2nd amendment backers, but they’re not and neither would’ve won if they’d have had a hardcore gun-rights stance. Pure and simple.

If Harold Ford endorses gay marriage, he’d be lucky to get much above 40% and that’s the cold truth. If he swung to the left on many of the issues that you like, he’d lose and lose badly. The reason is that the state of Tennessee isn’t as far left as you are (and California or NYC aren’t anywhere near as far right as me). Up until ‘02 I lived in state that was run by Democrats my whole life & I wondered if it was just me or was the state really that much further to the left than myself. After a while, it moved right.

Tennessee is moderate to conservative, after a few years with some leftward leaning back when it had Sasser & Gore as senators…neither were flaming lefties at the time (Gore has gone off the charts in a leftward direction since losing in ‘00, however) but definitely a bit left of center. The state has moved a bit to the right - not that much, though, and thus there’s no way that you’re going to get someone representing the whole state who is going to be really in line with your ideology, which I’d say is more in line with the modern-day “liberal” than a moderate-to-liberal like Ford, who is campaigning as a classic southern conservative in order to garner the independent vote & blue dog Democrats.

I think he’s run a masterful campaign, personally, and has a bright future. But, ideologically, Howard Dean he is not. And for the time being, Howard Dean clones won’t win in TN.

My two cents….

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